Triumph Over Adversity – Massimo Rigotti’s Path to Sobriety and Success

Brad Minus: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of life changing challengers. Again, as always, I'm your host, Brad minus, and I'm here so lucky to have Massimo Rigotti on the show. He is an author, an entrepreneur, a speaker and an addiction recovery expert. Advocates. He's got a bestselling book called flavors of confidence, a reflection of those in need.

Plus two other books that he's, that completes the series of flavors, of flavors of confidence. So let's bring them in. So Mossimo, how are you? I'm doing awesome. How are you today? I'm great. Thank you so much for being here today. And I, I am very privileged and honored to have you on the show. Mossimo, what was your. Childhood, like, I mean, like what was the compliment of your family? Where did you grow up and what was it like to be mamo as a kid? , 

Massimo Rigotti: well, in a word, it was fun. I had what most would [00:01:00] describe as a charmed existence as a child. And, so I was born in Lincoln, Nebraska, and my mom.

Had separated from my father before I was born. So there was an immediate separation in my life that I didn't know really existed. So we're able to like, fast forward through this because it doesn't really have an impact until later. So the first three years of my life, I was brought up In kind of that general collective sense that happens when you have a single mother that has a kid, you know, she was still married, but completely estranged from her husband.

And so I didn't know my father at that point. And so my grandfather and my grandmother, my aunts and uncles, you know, They were really, really close with me. And so as we're moving along through this, as I'm three years old, she runs into a guy she dated way back in high school over a summer, and they end up [00:02:00] connecting and get married.

And this gentleman becomes my dad. And so his name's Doug. Doug became the greatest possible person in my life and was this incredible positive influence. He brought me in just like I was his own. He was in advertising and, I was, for lack of a better word, his sidekick. It reminds me a lot of these days.

It's very publicized, so it's easy to see it, but I was kind of like little X and Elon, you know, like wherever dad was, I was right there with him. I was, under the tables at meetings. I was in his office. If there was a trade show, I was there meeting people. It was this very incredible experience.

It allowed me to interact with a lot of adults at a very young age. So, as we're moving through my life and, you know, I've got, a pretty good, time in school for the most part. But things aren't quite right. And I can't put that together exactly in my head. And when I was [00:03:00] in 3rd grade, something kind of interesting happened.

So the 1st day of 3rd grade, I got called on by this different last name and I was like, that's not my last name. What's going on? And I got upset. And the teacher came to my desk and said, yes, that is who you are. And I said, well, no, I'm not that person. And so this led to me going to the principal's office and my mom picking me up and having to explain to me that my dad is not my dad and that there's this other guy.

And, you know, so my whole world at eight years old just start like completely crumbles apart. And what happened in that moment is that all these memories from the beginning of my life. Came back, so everything that happened when in that 1 to 3 timeframe, like I started remembering things. I started remembering small interactions that had happened between me and my father where he had visited [00:04:00] here and there in the time period where I was 2 and 3 years old and those being difficult times.

And so, as we move forward into this adoption that occurred. Something very horrible happened in court and I overheard the adults talking, which that's why you should always, you know, make sure you separate the kids from the adult conversation, because it can have a huge impact. I overheard saying that, well, that's, that's, Nobody really wanted him anyway, and that, that hurt.

And first of all, my father didn't show up to the hearing. So like dad won by default. And then, you know, it was my mom who said this. So like, did that mean my mom didn't really want me, you know? And so like, it really just threw my world into disarray. And I didn't recover from that until I got sober.

But it manifested itself in some strange ways. So immediately what I [00:05:00] started doing was I'm going to be good enough for my father. This guy, I don't even know. I have not spent any amount of time with in recent memory, but I'm going to prove to him that I'm worth something. And so I really like doubled down into this ultimate perfectionist that was going to be good at all these different things because I was going to win his love back.

And you know, that's not a very good methodology for one's life because You're, you're trying to win acceptance of someone that you don't even know. Yeah. So it's, it's, it caused a lot of things, but as a child, you don't really, you don't understand really what's going on in your mind at that point. 

You want to be loved. You want to feel loved and you want to feel accepted. But while this is going on, it really turned me into somebody that. Didn't have many friends because I became very braggadocious. I became very off putting to [00:06:00] others. Anytime that something would occur, I'd always point out how I was the best at it.

I, I didn't really have any friends and I withdrew more and more. As I got older and into my high school years, I just was really disconnected from everything. I was performing well, but I. Didn't really fit in anywhere. And that made it very difficult, but I managed to make one friend, who became a lifelong friend.

And, my first business partner, Mac was his name. But high school was funny. It really was like one of those wild times. Cause as you go through puberty, you're like, you don't know what's going on. Right. And you're trying to figure out who you are, but it's even more difficult when you really.

Don't know who you are. You know what I mean? 

Brad Minus: Where did you try any sports or extracurriculars? 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, I was really involved in extracurricular actually. I was in a band orchestra I ran track and cross country I was in choir.

I was in plays. I [00:07:00] did a lot. And honestly, I think that I focused a lot of my time in those areas because it got me away from. My parents because I didn't really feel like I fit in with my family. I didn't really feel like I fit in anywhere. So I just channeled everything I had into anything that was open.

I was the 1st 1 volunteering to do anything. Oh, does somebody want to go out and try this? Oh, that was always I was always that person raising my hand. 

Brad Minus: Hey, so just out of curiosity, what instrument did you play in band? 

Massimo Rigotti: Well, I played several actually, but I, started on the clarinet. And that's what I marched.

But then I was a bassoonist in, orchestra, symphony. And, I played several other instruments. Like when we had pit orchestra for, I think the musical was the pajama game. I ended up playing, the clarinet, the bass clarinet, the saxophone, the oboe and the bassoon, all from my single chair in the pit.

And I would be switching out [00:08:00] instruments constantly during that show. It was pretty wild. 

Brad Minus: You want to know what's something wild? What's that? First chair clarinet all the way through high school. Awesome. Played, played alto sax during. Marching for, for marching. During concert band, I'd switch over to the E flat.

Okay. Yeah. And, played, played regular clarinet in orchestra and symphony. So yeah, I'm right along with you. And of course, I don't know if you've read anything, but I'm, I'm an endurance coach. So yes, I ran cross country. So yeah, so we got a lot of, a lot, a lot of stuff going on there, but yeah, I, I was kind of in the same, Oh, and I also was in more of the plays and later became a semi professional actor.

Nice. So, we are like, we're joined at the hip, brother. Good stuff. Absolutely. So I love that. So what was a favorite role that you played in high school? Do you remember? 

Massimo Rigotti: You mean on stage or? 

Brad Minus: Yeah, on stage. 

Massimo Rigotti: You know, it was probably, meet me in St. Louis. [00:09:00] I, yeah. And I was, oh man, what is the character's name?

I can't remember now. He's the leading male. No, it wasn't the leading male. It was the, the, secondary male that comes in and, from out of town, the older guy. I can't remember his character name, but anyway, that was, I really enjoyed that production because I mean, that's a big ensemble production and it was a lot of fun.

Brad Minus: Awesome. I love that. Absolutely love that. So you go through high school, you end up going to college university. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. So in high school, I started working at a pharmacy. So they give it a little backstory because it kind of helps lay the groundwork for my entrepreneurial life.

So I started working at a pharmacy, just as a stock guy, in the evenings. And then as we were, pushing into my, junior year of high school, there was a register position that opened and this was a family run for just small back when there still were small family run pharmacies.

And, I wanted to work the register and so I managed to get myself a promotion [00:10:00] and I Parlayed that into working there and ultimately right as I graduated high school, I got promoted to assistant manager of 1 of their other stores. And, so that's what I was doing the summer before I went to college at Kansas State University.

My major was chemical engineering premed. Things were. You know, going pretty well, but a couple of months into, uh, my time at K State, things were funny. I started, not being able to, sleep. I was having, you know, really some large, what I know now are manic episodes where I would go 4 days without sleeping, um, and, you know, And then I would calm down, but I wouldn't have like depressive moods.

So I went to the, the, the on campus psychiatrist, you know, and they're like, they diagnosed me as bipolar and probably mixed bipolar, but didn't really dig into it. too much [00:11:00] at that time and they wanted to put me on medication. And of course, I told them that there was nothing wrong with me because what would they possibly know?

You know, I, I was, I, I came from a family and I don't know if you did, but it was very common in our age bracket that there, there is no such thing as mental health problem. 

Yes. Yes. And they're done that, you know, doesn't exist. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Put the feelings away, compartmentalize them, get your S done.

Yeah. Yeah. But you're, you know, there's nothing wrong with you. Um, and so I took that attitude and what I began to do at that very, at that point in my life is anytime I started to get manic, I would drink and I was like, Oh, okay, well this is a suitable way to handle it and it seems to work. Okay. So that's what I'll do.

Um, and that continued While this was going on, I decided I'd start going back from Manhattan, Kansas to Kansas City and [00:12:00] work on the weekends as the weekend manager at the pharmacy. So I worked from 7 a. m. to 11 p. m. Saturday and Sunday, which effectively was a 32 hour work week in 2 days. And then we'd go back to school during the week.

Well, that was pretty grueling. Um, and so the following year, I transferred to Kansas University just because that's in Lawrence and it's only like 30 minutes from Kansas City. So it was just much easier to do. Um, and about this time, I just was kind of getting frustrated. The fact that I wasn't going to go any higher in this, uh, family run business.

And so I ventured out. And got a job at drug Emporium, which I think drug Emporium becoming part of Eckerd, which became part of CVS at the end of the day, but I, but I digress anyway, I got a job at drug Emporium as a general manager of a store. And so this was like a huge promotion. I'm at this point, 18 years old.

And I am running a store that's [00:13:00] doing, uh, about 2. 7 million a month. So in today's dollars, I'd be about 10 million a month store. It's pretty, it's moving. And I've, I have almost a hundred employees reporting to me. So 18 years old, I'm 18 years old, almost 19, but yeah, I was 18 years old. I was like, well, this is interesting.

And I was out of my element. I was out of my. I needed more guidance, um, but I didn't really get it. And, uh, so I just kind of, I was struggling because I didn't have anything that was like grounding me to reality. In one hand, I have this like really great career going on the other hand, I'm going to school and about this time, I, I ran into this Jeff Judah who ended up being my first mentor and he was 20 years my senior.

And he took me under his wing and he's like, okay, you need to start doing this. And that he goes, he's like, you really need [00:14:00] to decide. Are you going to go to school? Are you going to start a company? Are you going to do this? I'm like, and so all these things are going through my head. And, of course, my drinking has been increasing through this because.

I'm stressed too, because I found out that, hey, guess what? Alcohol also helps with stress. Not really. Not really. It doesn't help. But, but when you're that age, you're like, oh, this is totally helping me out of my situation. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Well, it's a depressant, right? It kind of comes down a little bit, gives you a little bit of euphoria, just enough to, like I said, so were you like that?

Were you? Stereotypical alcoholic, like you had bottles everywhere. You had a flask, you, you know what I mean? Or was it just whenever you were free, you know, you ended up in a car or something? 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, yeah. At this point, you know, I'm 18, so like, it's, it's, oh yeah, you can't go a bar. It mainly was like after work and I, and I was like.

Really like at this point I would consider it to be just to take the edge off. I was drinking primarily wine and beer, [00:15:00] nothing, no hard liquor. It was just just enough to take the edge off. So I could then relax and go to sleep nothing huge. And it, it actually would be several years before escalated to the point that I'm like, hey, look, I'm an alcoholic.

But, uh, this is a, this is kind of that segue moment in my, in the crossroads in my life where I ultimately decide, that, you know, I'm going to not only drop out of school, um, but I'm also going to quit this job and I'm going to go to work for a startup company in, in Springfield, Missouri. 

Brad Minus: So yeah. Yeah.

Major life change. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. So I just dropped everything, cut all ties and moved to Springfield, Missouri. Uh, and, and I did it before Jeff, like Jeff found this opportunity and I went with him and we met with, uh, the founder of this company, it was in the banking industry. Unicard was the name of the company, and [00:16:00] they dealt with check guarantee.

Um, which back when this is 1994 95 timeframe. So, you know, like Everybody's still writing checks. We hadn't heard of debit cards or anything at that point. So I just picked up everything and I, I left and, and went to, to Springfield, Missouri. And I, I was installed as vice president of marketing for a startup, basically banking company.

It's 

Brad Minus: crazy. Yeah. Yeah. 19 years old. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's crazy. It was great. I mean, but it's great. I mean, I mean, where else are you going to, you know, at that age, you know, whether it's drug induced or not, you, um, you're a sponge, you're an absolute sponge. Everything that you can get your hands, especially if you, if you really enjoy what you're doing.

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. I 

Brad Minus: mean, it's just like, it's crazy how much things that, you know, you actually soak up and are able to then. You know, uh, and recall, remember, and comprehend. Um, I wish I could still [00:17:00] do that. You know what I mean? It's just not, the desire to learn is there, but the recall, not so much. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, now I find that I'm more in the application of all the grand knowledge I've accomplished.

accumulated rather than anything related to, I mean, I'm still learning and I try to learn as much as I can, but you're right. It doesn't soak up quite as much, probably because the sponge is pretty much soaked at this point, right? 

Brad Minus: There you go. 

There you go. We only have some, 

only got so much room in there.

Massimo Rigotti: That's right. That's right. You know, I can't push any more in, uh, but, uh, so this was a really interesting, uh, spot to be. And the timing is really interesting. So this is in my book, but it's really interesting, uh, uh, Digression of the story, but so I'm working for this company, Unicard, and their product is check guarantee.

So, you know, back in the day, you didn't really have, there were some pocketed debit networks, you know, where you could use a card and you could use your pin number in order [00:18:00] to pay. But, I mean, like, there were very few merchants that participated and we had this that, like, Guaranteed that you could write your check anywhere if you presented this card.

And we had a merchant network set up, and so would take that check and it would process through our modem bank and, and, and then we would present that a CH transaction to, to the bank. And you know, I'm like looking at all this and as the VP of marketing. I have sales reps out there trying to sign up more merchants and they're like, you know, this would be a lot easier if we just had, you know, access to another network.

I mean, this is going to take forever to add, you know, everyone to this. So I went out for a walk, uh, and this was sometime in March of what would that have been March of maybe 96, I think. Um, And I'm like, Hmm, what could we do here? And so I had the crazy idea that if we could somehow get the visa logo on our check [00:19:00] card, that maybe we'd figure out a way to debit transactions in real time.

So I come, I write this, I stay up all night. I got into a mania. I stay up all night. I write my, uh, a boss, a business proposal, uh, on how we're going to do this. I'm like, this, this is the way, you know, we're going to go out. We need to get the Visa logo on our card. And then I think we could tie into everyone's bank account because every bank is a Visa participant and we can just automatically pull it out of their checking account.

And he's like, well, that's a great idea, but there's no way Visa is going to play ball with us. I'm like, okay. You don't know, let's get him on the phone. So he calls him and he ends up working over the course of like a week or so. He gets the right people on the phone and they end up saying, we'll do it.

Brad Minus: And hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Massimo, are you telling me that you are the person that first came up with the idea of the debit card? 

Massimo Rigotti: Of the visa debit card. Yes. Yes. [00:20:00] Wow. 

Brad Minus: Yes. You're talking about something revolutionary. I mean that rev thing, if you think about what we are today, revolutionary, that changed everything.

Massimo Rigotti: I know, I know it did, but here, but there's a, there's a sad part of this story and it's, that's why I'm telling you this story because like, this is a good example for not only entrepreneurs, but it's a good example also to like, keep. Like your mindfulness and on everything going on. So Visa wasn't technically interested in it, and we had signed this non-compete and everything.

They're like, they were so busy focused on trying to get people to use their credit cards for like gas and groceries and all this other stuff. At the time, you probably even remember the commercials, since you were about my age. They, they weren't focused on checks and. So it's really interesting how this ends up playing out.

So I even told my boss, I'm like, look, we're gonna need something that sells. So from a marketing standpoint, let's see if we can get, uh, you know, access to Warner Brothers and we'll [00:21:00] use like Bugs and Daffy making fun of each other for not writing, for still writing checks. And so that was like what we presented to Visa.

And they said, That's fine, but we're going to need licensing, uh, you know, for this. And, and it ended up being, I think about 400, 000 a P per year, we could use their network and then we were going to get approximately one cent per transaction. Now think about that. Like that's a lot of money. When you think about how many debit transactions happen today, every day, a penny on every debit, that's a lot of money.

Um, and. He turns it down. He says, he says, that's, that's just too much. I don't think, I'm like, dude, you don't understand. This is like, this is like Tesla turning over his money to George Westinghouse here. You're like, this, this thing could potentially be the biggest thing ever. And he's like, I just don't see it.

I was like, great. So I [00:22:00] quit. I left because I knew right away that as soon as that non compete timeframe ran out, that Visa would, would see the potential. Someone, someone inside Visa would see the potential in this and be like, wait a second, you know, we thought this was stupid, but this is actually a good idea.

We should probably do it. And that's exactly what happened. At the, at the end of that year, they rolled out the visa check card and, and hilariously enough, it was Bugs and Daffy. I 

Brad Minus: remember. 

Massimo Rigotti: With Bugs presenting his card and making fun of Daffy and calling him a maroon for not, for still writing checks.

And, and when I saw that commercial come on, it was right around Christmas time that year. I was like, son of a gun. I, I just, and, and then you just. It was just one of those things where I was like, okay, I'm learning from this better, better, non competes, better, uh, partnerships, make sure that you understand who you're in business with.

And, you know, it was just so many things that I learned out of that, but at the end of the day, [00:23:00] I love it because every time I see that, I'm just like, yeah, that's, I know where that came from. So it's really kind of cool. Wow. 

Brad Minus: I mean, that's incredible. Just the idea that I mean, you had the idea. I mean, I wish it would have played out better for you.

Don't get me wrong. Um, but it just the idea that, that you had this, that has us. And I think a lot of us, a lot of us down the line, maybe not, you didn't get into it as far as you do, but a lot of these things that you're like, Oh yeah, what if we did this? What if we did that? And blah, blah, blah. And they don't act on it.

And then two years later, all of a sudden it's just all like, look at that. You know, do you remember when we talked about that? I remember that. Oh my God. And now they're doing it, you know? So that's, yeah. But at least you, you jumped in and you, you know, you took action. Um, a lot of people, a lot of us don't.

So I, I, I, I get that. 

Massimo Rigotti: Wow. There are a lot of lessons wrapped in that whole story. Believe me. I mean, you can pull it from a lot of different directions and I often do because it's, and the thing that I get asked the most is like, aren't you [00:24:00] bitter about that? I'm like, no, it was probably the single greatest learning experience of my life.

Brad Minus: Yeah, I and I get that and that's a great way to look at it. Uh, so it's where were you in? Boy, I'm used to saying fitness journey. Where were you in your drinking journey Massimo? 

Massimo Rigotti: Well, well then at this point I was drinking every day now I'm like I'm drink that mainly Mainly beer, but you know, it wouldn't be unusual for me to Drink a case of beer a day I mean, I just, I've just like, seriously, I just open a beer and I'd start drinking when I woke up and I stopped drinking when I went to sleep.

Um, so as I left, uh, left there, I went to work, um, at Sprint and, um, worked as a network design engineer. I somehow managed to, yeah, I, I, I interviewed for a position and I [00:25:00] didn't have a degree in engineering, but I, you know, I knew somebody and I knew all of the, uh, information and so I interviewed really well and I got the job.

Long story short. So I ended up, 

Brad Minus: no, that's, that's the industry that I actually make money in. Okay. So that's why I'm like, wait, wait. Chemical Engineering to Entrepreneur was in pharmacy and now he's a network engineer. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Okay. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. So , I was, uh, I was involved at, uh, the very beginnings of the, uh, transition for Sprint when they bought all the PCS, uh.

Networking, uh, my, I was actually the SME for, uh, DSCs, IMTN, broadband DACs. That was my, like my piece of equipment that I know in and out. Um, I learned TL one, you know, I learned a new language. [00:26:00] Um, and, and I should have said at some point in through all of this is that programming has been like a mainstay, like hobby knowledge.

source point for me since I was, you know, much younger, but it never really played out into anything. This was the first time I actually really was starting to use some actual programming and, and writing shell scripts to do things in TL1 and, and, and that, and I was like, Oh, this is kind of interesting.

And, and starting to then look at everything that was going on in the, in the internet space. So interesting. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. You know, it's funny stories that that's how I got involved. With PCs and stuff as well is tinkering around with stuff. I wasn't, I wasn't big into programming. I used to, I mean, if you remember back.

Way back when we used to get the computer magazines and then the computer magazines were the Were all the scripts and you had to type it in because was no place for you to store it And then when you did want to store it you had to do it on cassette um So, I mean, [00:27:00] that's how far back I go back and I remember plug, you know and writing it all in and then then playing the games and all that stuff and then uh for me it was Um, I started to hook up computers together and all of a sudden friend of my dad's was like, I've got this shop and I need to, I would really like to figure out a way to have all the things on the upstairs computer, being the bouncer's computer.

And I was like, well, you just, you know, put in the desk, come back down and do this. But she says, that's what I want to get rid of. I'm already doing that. So I started looking around and then of course came around to, Look through the magazines and lo and behold, astic is what it was called. 

Massimo Rigotti: I remember that

Brad Minus: Remember that 

Massimo Rigotti: I do tastic. Oh, I saw that. I 

Brad Minus: says, okay, we, we can, we can invest in this. I put it up and then I ran it all. I ran a, i, I ran a network cable all the way down. I put it in the other one and bam, we were sharing folders. Um, it like, you know, net networking. [00:28:00] One. Um, yeah, so that's, you know, that's basically how I got started in it.

And then from there, it just kept leveling up. Um, so yeah, that's, that's so interesting that you got it that way. Okay. So now it makes more sense. At least you didn't, you weren't able to walk into sprint and go, yeah, my last, my last job as entrepreneur, I came up with the idea for a debit card for that. I was a chemical engineer and, um, yeah.

Okay. Now I want to be a network engineer. Hire me. You know? All right. Now it makes more sense. Now it makes more 

Massimo Rigotti: sense. Yeah, so it's, I mean, like, this was still a time period as well, and I feel like sometimes I have to explain this to those younger than us. You didn't necessarily have to have a degree, you just had to prove you had the skill set to do a job at this point in time.

Brad Minus: Yeah, right. This is the, this is the, yeah, pre, now, right? And as we've kind of gone through this cycle, where you gotta go and get a degree, or there wasn't anyone to look at you, to now where you're going to the point where we're almost back there. Yeah, we are. Where if you you can do it, then, [00:29:00] then they'll hire you without, you know, without a degree.

Massimo Rigotti: In some ways, I think it's better personally, because boy, I worked my butt off to try to rise to the level because I was sitting like the guy in the cube next to me had a doctorate in electrical engineering and I'm like thinking, boy, I need to step up my game because he was able to To think about things that were going on inside of the network.

It's such a deep level. I was like, okay, I don't understand that yet, but I'm going to, and I did. And I worked really hard to get to that level of knowledge. Um, yeah. Um, so, and then of course, you know what it was like being in telecom in the late nineties. Oh my goodness. Every single day was a vendor party and here comes the drinks.

So this is when I switched from drinking beer into, I started drinking mixed drinks and like started into the transition into drinking Jack Daniels straight, which would become my drink of choice. Um, yeah, Jack, Jack neat was my drink. No ice, just [00:30:00] 

Brad Minus: around this, around the same time period. I found the same thing.

I had joined the military in 1996 and in 1997, I ended up in Korea, started with, and by my whole, I spent 18 months in Korea and I'd like it. But at first it was beer, soju, mixed drinks, Jack and Coke. Jack and Coke hold the Coke. 

Massimo Rigotti: Hold the Coke. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, I get it. I know that transition very well. It wasn't an everyday thing, but I did, you know, as we got off, got off base and stuff.

Um, but yeah, I get that. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, and here's the thing. It became, it was not looked down upon for you to have drinks at lunch at this period in corporate world either. So you would go to a vendor at lunch, and you might have a couple drinks at lunch, and then you go back and work in the afternoon. Then you go out with another vendor after work and have more drinks, and then I would go home and I'd probably drink some more, and then I would get up and do it all again.

And so, you What are you at that point? You're an alcoholic. I mean, you're not, [00:31:00] you're not really, you're a functioning one. You're not to the point that you need to drink all the time, but you're really starting to push the envelope. And yeah, so, so that's where I was. And while I was at Sprint, I heard that, um, well, I wanted to do some more things on, on the internet.

So me and my friend that I mentioned earlier from high school, Mac, um, we. Started a company in the Internet space, and we, we started doing some technical support for, uh, small businesses and we had reached a point where we had an employee that was working full time for us. And both of us were working at Sprint, uh, and we were able to do this because we had cell phones.

So, like, our office phone was like, I had it forwarding from the off quote unquote off true office to my cell phone. So it appeared as if we had an office and we would schedule meetings during the day that coincided with other meetings we had at [00:32:00] different locations of Sprint in the Kansas City area. So it made it very easy to appear that I was going to a meeting, but I'd go to a client meeting, and then I'd go to my Sprint meeting and then I come back to my desk.

So we managed to pull this off for about six or eight months and then it kept growing. Um, and we had this opportunity, this association management firm was, um, the two owners were going through a divorce and they were, they wanted to basically get out. And we ended up picking up the pieces of this divorce basically and threw a company together.

And. Suddenly we're running an association management firm. So, so, so now, so now I'm doing something entirely different yet again. So, and a lot of people don't know this, but for those who don't. Most associations are not actually managed by the board of directors or the association. They hire a firm that actually takes care of the [00:33:00] day to day, answers the phone, replies to members, set up their conferences, all that sort of stuff.

So that's what this firm did. And we had, uh, Some pretty sizable clients, but 2 of them were in the insurance space and 9 11 was just about to happen. And when it did, this was catastrophic for this company. Um, and it was just like, I saw the handwriting on the wall and and. Our two largest clients said that they wanted to self manage as they saw themselves through the crisis.

And so they gave their, their notice and we just kind of said, Oh, we're going to have to pack it up. But something interesting happened at the same time this was going on. I was dating a model at the time. And, uh, she was having me look at her contracts and, and the like, and asking me questions about. Her representation and so on and so forth.

And, and I would answer, I'd make adjustments on the contracts. And, [00:34:00] and then one day she said, would you mind looking at this for my friend? I said, Oh yeah, no problem. And she said, why didn't you take this to your manager? She goes, you are my manager. And I said, whoa, whoa, when did that happen? And she's like, I fired my manager months ago.

You're better than, than he is. I'm like. Okay, so my soft landing out of this was I parlayed this into becoming a talent, 

Brad Minus: a 

Massimo Rigotti: talent manager, uh, and I ultimately moved to the Los Angeles area. 

Brad Minus: Wow. What a fricking life. And you're, I mean, at this point you've got to be, let's see, I don't know what, because my age, I'm 20, I'm 20, I'm 

Massimo Rigotti: 25 at this point basically.

Yeah. So 25, 26 is, so as I'm rounding out, what was it? 9 11 was in, 2001. Yeah. So I would have been 26 at the time. So, um, yeah, so that's what happened. I was like, Hmm, this looks interesting. [00:35:00] So then I, I kind of packed it up and, and, uh, did that my, uh, I had a wonderful time that a lot of people, uh, that are very interesting.

Uh, the kind of high point of my, uh, time out there was, uh, I had eight of the models on deal or no deal were clients of mine, uh, on the, on the initial run. Um, so that was, that was pretty cool. And I got to, you know, I, I started kind of having my hand in, uh, some producing and, and, and stuff like that, but I was coming off the rails.

Because what, what, what happened is I literally lost ties to anybody that was in my life because my family is all back in the, in the Midwest. They're in the Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Oklahoma area, you know? So like no one is nearby that I know. And so I'm completely untethered from any semblance of reality.

And I went full on [00:36:00] Hollywood, you know, and, and in the sense that there wasn't a party that I didn't want to attend. And there, there wasn't an address in Hollywood Hills that I hadn't visited. 

Brad Minus: So, you know, I, I mean, don't people always think of going to Los Angeles if they want to get sober? Isn't that like the Mecca for sobriety?

Massimo Rigotti: Oh, I think so. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, totally. But I didn't have that on my mind. I was having too much of a good time. Right. Exactly. And I mean, there's all I think there's a part of a lot of us that that think that going into that realm and being with the beautiful people is going to be this incredibly great time, but it's almost equally as miserable because you very quickly realize that so many of the people that you're interacting with a don't know who they are.

And, and be there running from something. And, and so [00:37:00] it's, it's not very healthy. And, and I understand sadly why so many people who are in the business fall apart, because it's very hard to latch onto anything that's real. Um, you spend most of your time kind of masking your own pain and your, your own, uh, challenges with yourself and you don't really know who you are.

And so it's just very fake. It's the best way to say it 

Brad Minus: that's, I mean, that could be an answer to a lot of people's questions, you know, like, I mean, I always thought about Heath Ledger and, um, Robin Williams and, uh, the guy that played the one that really, really shook me was the guy that played Flynn from Glee and the guy that played, uh, the famous jet Jackson, who on, on Disney, who had turned, who became a detective on a Rizzoli and aisles.

All those people, like, suicides, that you were like, that I kept thinking like, [00:38:00] You got all the money in the world. You've got all the friends in the world. You got everything you could possibly imagine. There's nothing you can't buy. There's nothing you can't do. There's nothing. And you're like, and I mean, all these people went out on top, you know?

And I'm like, why, how, how could you possibly. Do this to yourself. And I think you might have answered the question. 

Massimo Rigotti: It really is the answer. And that's, this is the lesson that I take away from my time in Los Angeles is that you, it's kind of like you can have all the money in the world. You can have all the friends in the world, but if you don't know who you truly are and you don't have truth in your own relationships, you truly are.

You will just completely spiral. It's sad. It's sad. Um, 

Brad Minus: how did you get out of that? 

Massimo Rigotti: Well, I mean, in some ways I got lucky. I, uh, I started, I started dating one of my clients, which had been a no, no, but I started dating one of my clients and, um, [00:39:00] and then we ultimately got married and part of it was like, we're getting out of here.

She was from Minneapolis area. And so we moved back to Kansas city and. I started a printing company because, you know, why not?

Brad Minus: I love your reaction, Brad. It's priceless. I mean, part of it is I'm looking at myself cause I, I kind of went that route, but it's, it was a little more secular, um, a little kind of like. It was a little bit more gradual, gradual. Um, just for, just for instance, I just, I'll just roll them out there. But I was, um, you know, besides being in computers and everything else, I was a, I was a real estate appraiser.

I was a stockbroker. I was a photographer for a little while. I was, so I'm, I'm on that same realm, but I wasn't, but they were jobs. They weren't entrepreneurial ventures. I would have loved to be entrepreneurial ventures. And here you are, you're, I mean, [00:40:00] not, you're digging in here, you know? So, hey, so what, what was your, uh, what was your claim to fame as far as the printing presco?

I shouldn't say your claim to fame, but what was your specialty? 

Massimo Rigotti: Well, I mean, like in a way, kind of, I mean, I was really early to, uh, something called variable data printing. There was some new technology that had been. that had come out, um, and it called XMPy, um, and Xerox ended up buying the company, but I got certified in this technology.

And basically what it does is it allows complete dynamic printing when you combine it with digital press. And there was so much going on with the internet at the time. And I started getting these crazy ideas about like, well, what if we could tie together, what. Some individual that is a customer of yours together with a print campaign.

So we know that your customer likes to golf and we could send out a flyer to buy a new car with somebody on a golf course. Wouldn't you like to drive up to the course and a new, you know, [00:41:00] whatever. And and so we were able to personalize all that data from. Knowing that about them and, um, and then, and pull and do it dynamically.

So when you're, for instance, your postcard came out, it would look one way and the very next postcard that printed would be another way. And, and so that, that was the kind of cool technology that, uh, I was involved in the, like the very beginnings of it. It's pretty, it's a mature thing now, but it isn't done quite to the extreme that I somewhat took it to.

Brad Minus: I mean, that's the early tracking cookie. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, absolutely. Except I tied it. I tied it back into actual physical printed material, which no, not many had done. I'm not the first by any means, but not many had done it at that point. Now it's like relatively easy to do it. And there's several companies out there that can help you do it.

Um, uh, so that's, that's it. That's what I was doing. And then that caught the eye of, [00:42:00] um, this is somewhat funny. So here I, I, I like come back and I get involved with, uh, extended warranty service contracts. I mean, like everybody's had one of those phone calls before, right? I mean, cause I mean, Brad, let's talk about that car of yours.

Is it under six years of age and under a hundred thousand miles? We can really get you in a good warranty today. So I. I worked for a, uh, I, I had a client as a, and, and worked as a, uh, the clearinghouse printer for these contracts, because I had devised a method to bring in all of the call center, um, information and print out from a single file every night.

Like they would have this data dump and, and then our program would bring everything together. And then working with 53 different insurers printed the contract that was sold. On a, um, on a book that was personalized. So it might be one was endurance and one was car safe and one was, you know, and [00:43:00] like all the print, every printed thing was different that came out.

And so it looked, it was completely branded and this allowed faster processing and cheaper, cheaper production for them. Cause prior to this. Uh, it didn't look as, as nice because, you know, they would just send out this bland book and it wasn't really branded as endurance, for instance, endurance is still in business.

So I can talk about that, but yeah, yeah, 

Brad Minus: yeah. 

Massimo Rigotti: So, um, yeah, so, and, and we had this great pack that we put together for endurance too. It was like with a folder and inserts and everything, it like really took them up a notch and it came to the customer in a FedEx, uh, Pack that was branded. So I mean, it's like, well, I spent two grand on this.

It looks like I spent two grand on it, but you know, it's, and it was, I mean, it, it was costing about 20 a pack for them to get that from us, but it was profitable. And it was, that was like, that was the opus of projects that I did, uh, at that company. So that was, that was, That was E 16. And so, [00:44:00] um, and then the attorney generals came down hard on several of those companies and put them well, 

Brad Minus: Oh, for the warranty companies where you're talking to the 

Massimo Rigotti: warranties companies.

Yeah. And that ended, that had become like a huge part of our business and it put us in a tight spot. And at that point, my drinking was completely out of control. Cause we're talking about this entrepreneurial journey, the stress and everything else that was going on with running all of this. Yeah. Had become not only drinking Jack Daniel's all the time, but I forgot to mention that back in L.

A. I picked up a mean cocaine habit. So, so, so now I'm, I'm dragging two addiction habits along with me and my daily life. Right? Uh, and so that, that's like difficult to sustain. And my marriage was starting to fall apart mainly because I was out of it all the time. I mean, I wasn't even present and, and I knew it.

I knew that I needed to stop. I knew I was in a bad spot, but [00:45:00] I was like, I can still do it all. And I think looking back at it, that was the voice of me from childhood going, you just got to work harder. You know, you can, you can win, you can do this, you can win it. I just really believe it. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. So, um, are you, are you comfortable talking about the first time you ever tried cocaine?

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Okay. Do you remember what it was? Tell me, tell me about just real quick. Cause I'm gonna tell you mine. 

Massimo Rigotti: Okay. Well, mine is going to sound like somewhat crazy and medicinal in a way, because I was working on a project and it was late at night. And in L. A. And I think it was, yeah, it was definitely on set someplace and I was working through all this paperwork.

I'm like, oh, man, I am so tired. I, I need to sleep a couple hours now. It's like, and somebody leans over. He's like, here, just have a hit of this. I was like, what is it? It's like, it's blow. I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not going down this road. It's [00:46:00] like, I just, I know myself. If I start, I will never stop and they're like, ah, it'll be fine.

You need to get this done. Don't you? And I'm like, yeah. And I was like, yeah, what the hell? It's not going to hurt anything. I'll be okay. And then I did that first bump and wow, I was like, I was so awake and so like, yeah, I mean, it was like, okay, I got that done. What else did we need to get done? You know, you know, and then, and then from that point for the, for the first like couple of years of use.

It was very measured. Like, I like literally measured out the maximum amount that I could do in a day and then I would like space it out and I would calendar it and I would write down when I had had a bump. So I made sure that I didn't do more than, yeah. So I was like, I was, I really managed it. But eventually got out of control.

Cause like, oh, this is a pain in the butt, you know? And then I started, and then I had like a bullet that I would carry with me all the time. And yeah, I was [00:47:00] a mess and it just got 

Brad Minus: worse. Yeah. So I was living in Chicago and we had a, uh, we had a poker night with the guys, you know, and there's like six of us sitting around the table, we're playing and stuff.

And then one guy says, you know, Hey, does anybody want to bump? And. I grew up very, like, I grew up even with my father at age five going, if you ever decide to pick up a cigarette, I will kill you right there. You know, because he had smoked and he knew how bad it was and watched a couple people die and he's like, if I find you to have a cigarette, I will murder you right there.

You know what I mean? And it wasn't, you know, obviously it wasn't going to murder me, but it was going to be bad if that ever happened. So, never tried it, never did anything. But we're sitting around this table, um, and, uh, I was working, I was working as a, uh, real estate appraiser and all I know is that I've got a stack of reports I've got to get done.

They're about this big. We're sitting around, we're playing a little poker, blah, blah, blah, and he goes, nah, I'm like, no, no, no, I can't do that. Anyway, we finished up playing that night and [00:48:00] everybody left except for me and the guy that had the coke. And I'm like, hey, listen, I got all these reports to get done.

Can you sell me? You know enough. I've never done it before. I'm gonna try it. He goes, well, let's do a line together and you go home and see how you feel and I'll give you a little bit extra. So he basically said to two lines and then you bump every couple hours when you start to feel you're starting to fall bump bump and he showed me how to do it.

And that night I must have had, I don't know, 20, 30 reports. I had to get done at, at, it usually would take me 45, 45, 50 minutes apiece to get it done, knocked them all out that night, every single one of them. And I was like, yeah, I'm doing this. And then worked out, went to the gym, worked out, and then we had to go turn them in, I went and I turned them in.

Everything was perfect, blah, blah, blah. And, um, I'm starting to come down and I was, and he told me, he goes, listen, you're going to crash and you might crash 12 hours. I says, but. So don't worry about it if you end up like really sleeping enough. And so I'm starting to fall down and I'm like, okay, all right.

Is it's about time to go to [00:49:00] sleep? Oh, it's like, I don't know. It's like 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning. And, um, and I've been up all night and my boss calls me and he goes. I don't know what happened, but these are probably the best reports I've ever seen come out of, come out of you. They are amazing.

Everything is perfect, detailed, dot your i's, cross your t's. None of that stuff that I've been bothering you about has been done. And I'm like, I just want to hand to you. I'd like great job. And I'm like, yeah, thanks boss. Click the thing, went over, took the, took the rest of the Coke and poured it down the freaking toilet.

And I went, it's flush. And because do you remember in the seventies? There was this, there was this, this, uh, commercial. And all it was, was this guy in a brown suit with a monkey on his shoulders. A real monkey. And he's just like, walking around in a circle. Right? And it's basically a spotlight coming down.

He's in this brown suit tie and he's walking around. And all you hear is goes, all you hear him say is, I do [00:50:00] coke, so I can work longer, so I can make more money. So I can buy more coke so I can work longer so I can make more money so I can buy more coke That is the first thing that went through my brain and I went click look flush It's true 

Massimo Rigotti: though that that commercial is probably so oh my goodness I forgot about that commercial until just now 

Brad Minus: it it literally popped into my brain, you know what I mean?

And this is you know, this is uh, 1993 94 something like that. Um, I It literally popped into my brain like that and I was just like, nope, nope. I'm out. Good. 

Massimo Rigotti: Good for 

Brad Minus: you. Yeah I don't have an addictive personality, you know, god knows i've tried. Um, but uh But I don't so I was able I was that it just came right to my head.

I'm just like i'm not doing that But anyway, all right, so you're um, you're I don't say you're addicted to coke, but you're definitely doing it But you are starting to become an alcoholic um, and you Are finishing up the printing You Uh, [00:51:00] this printing entrepreneurial journey that you are on. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. Yeah. So this was coming to a close.

A lot of things just all happened at once. My business partner in the printing company, uh, dies, uh, and a lot of things happen at once. So we lost a bunch of clients. Then my partner dies. He was 49. Uh, and he was on vacation with his family. So that like hit hard. Um, I told my wife I wanted to get divorced.

So like, just like there's a culmination of all these things that happened at once. And then I went to a printer. I subcontract some stuff with, um, and, uh, his name's Wayne and he's like, Hey, I'm getting ready to sell my, uh, printing company as well. Why don't you join forces? And so like three of us came together into one, uh, kind of transaction there.

And suddenly I'm at this other printer, but I'm not happy. And it's just, life is just not going generally well. But. I'm also like completely glazed over by the fact that I'm doing blow daily and [00:52:00] drinking to I'm like literally at this point drinking a handle of Jack Daniels every other day. So, like, like, half of half of a handle.

a day. I'm not hardly eating. So my, my body's basically figured out how to turn the grain alcohol into everything that I possibly need nutrition wise. Um, so it's, it's just bad. And so in the midst of all this, uh, I take a vacation with a group of friends and go to Destin, Florida. And when I'm there, uh, I run into this girl on the beach, Samantha, and This woman would ultimately change my life.

She, um, we, we just like, we immediately work, we'd click and I'm not sure why, but sometimes you meet people in your life and that's just how it is. And you just. have to learn to run with it. And I did. Um, and we became real close, but she was like [00:53:00] really focused in on the fact that you've got some problems, man.

And so in her focus to do all, to, to like fix me, so to speak, is, um, she, she thought that the underlying challenge for me was my bipolar disorder that was causing me to do all these, these things. You know, drinking and the drugs and, and, uh, you know, I still didn't think I had anything wrong with me, but I played along and the end of 2014 found me losing the last of everything I had.

And I became homeless in December of 2014. And this was like a complete wake up call. I have my car. Um, but I, I, it's still like that. Was still very very tough and living on the street and but I it didn't stop my entrepreneurial Mindset mind you I started a homeless taxi service um at where I I This is actually really cool So I would I [00:54:00] actually would put out on the socials that I was going between these gas stations And if you paid me five bucks, I would take you or basically anywhere on the stop.

It's like a long bus. It, you could be just between one of the stations, but it ran from all the way downtown to Southern Johnson County in, in, uh, Kansas City area. So the, it's like 20 mile round, uh, like. South and then 20 miles back to the north and, and I would run this and, and I, I made, made some good money for a bit.

I was like, man, this is great. Oh man. You know what I need to do now? Get really fucked up. And so it all, it all, it all go, all goes away. Right. And so I wallow around in, in, uh, on the streets of, of Kansas city pretty hard. And in August of that, of, uh, 2015 I end up in the hospital. Um, and I won't go into it for the purposes of time, but I have a near death experience after having three grand mal seizures.

[00:55:00] Um, and when I, I come to, you would think it would be enough that like, I would stop, but I was drunk three weeks later. Um, and, and things just, just nothing seemed to be working. And Samantha kept pushing me to, you, something is, is truly bothering you down deep. And you just, you got to figure out what this was.

And then I go to rehab. And that's where I discover this memory that I already told you about my adoption. That's something that I had put away deep, deep down inside of my head for got 30 years or more. And once I had that, it was, wow. Okay. That's changes everything. Now I know what I'm fighting. And I was able to then stand up sober.

And I got a job in March of 2016. So March 23rd of 2016 was my, is my sobriety date. So I'm coming up on 10, 10 years here next spring. Wow. [00:56:00] 

Brad Minus: That's awesome. Um, all right. So just, I just want to step back real quick. So you meet Samantha and Destin. Yes. So when you say that she was telling you all this stuff, is this like, is this a phone, is this DMs, is it something, or did she come out to Kansas city with you?

Massimo Rigotti: Well, it's a combination of things. We spent a lot of time FaceTiming one another. Uh, she lived in Alabama. Um, and, and of course I'm in Kansas city. We, we wrote letters to one another when I ended up on the street. Cause I didn't have a phone a lot of the time. So it turned into like literally. Like 1885 all over again, you know, writing her a letter and she's writing me one as if there was no technology and that that was a really powerful way to go back and forth to because she would ask me different things and then I would write her back responses and then I would have to wait, you know, and there's a lot, a lot of anticipation and like thinking more about what she said in her last letter and reading them again and going, Oh, I need to think about that.

So, I [00:57:00] mean, like her letters were very, um, it was like, you know, like correspondence psychology in a sense, right? My psychiatrist, my male. Um, but the best psychiatrist is the one inside your own head. And, and I think she knew that. So she managed to ask the questions that were really, really, it made me dig deep and figure a lot of things out about myself.

So that, yeah. 

Brad Minus: And it was just the fact that you were, you know, you had a father, you didn't know. And then you had, and then you found out that the father you thought you didn't know wasn't really your father. And then you got adopted, you know, and then, oh my God, yeah, I could see that. But that just caused that effect that you didn't, I mean, what was the revelation there?

I know what I could think it might've been, but what was the revelation? 

Massimo Rigotti: The revelation really more than anything was that it didn't matter what, it didn't matter about these, these underlying things. It didn't matter that people had discarded me because I had, you know, basically [00:58:00] that feeling of being discarded and And, and, and I had lived with that and pushed it under when I was eight years old.

Like I thought that I wasn't worth anybody. This is why all of my relationships fail. That's why all my friendships fail. That's why business relationships were challenged. And once I was able to like. Push past this and realize like how to openly connect with others on a deeper level, because then I actually understood where I was coming from as opposed to I had this mask on that had become so heavy that it, it wasn't even me.

I mean like, and I really didn't even know who I was. And it's really quite. I'm so lucky I managed to get out of Los Angeles without dying or killing myself. I really am because I was in the same boat and that's why I got along so well in that in that arena because it was I was with a bunch of like minded people and and thankfully my ex wife pulled me out of that.

saying you're not going to do this anymore. I think she saw it. [00:59:00] Um, one thing I didn't mention as well is that when my part X, when my partner passed away, um, my business partner passed away, she showed back up in my life. She like called me right away. She started coming by my house every day, spending hours with me.

I mean, like this is my ex wife. There's no reason to do it. And when my, my book came out, my first book came out, And, uh, I gave her a heads up about it and she confirmed what I wrote in the book was like, I always just felt like the only reason that she did this is that she was afraid I was going to kill myself.

And she told me, she goes, yeah, that's why I came by there every day for a month, just to make sure that you're going to not do that. 

Brad Minus: I can't even imagine, but it sounds like to me, and I'm not, you know, I'm not. I'm not that adverse to this stuff or, um, but that you felt like you were discarded. So you were going to discard other people before they discarded you.

Bingo. Nope. I'm not going to let this happen. Nope. That's why I'm out. Yep. I'm gone. [01:00:00] Yep. Okay. 

Massimo Rigotti: The second that I felt like it, I was, I had let someone in enough. I would just cut, cut it off because it's like, no, because you're just going to discard me. So I'm going to discard you before I can be discarded.

And if you do that, you're never going to connect with anybody because you, I mean, like it's the ultimate horrible wall to have up. It really is. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. I get that. So what happened? Uh, so you got sober. 

Massimo Rigotti: I got sober. I mean, thank God. Uh, and. And so I started working for, uh, I got a temp job, uh, pulling parts at Kubota tractor, and I purposely walked in not with any semblance of like, Oh, I have all this experience doing all these sorts of things.

I just put my head down and I worked. And 3, well, just over 3 years later, I was the general manager of the facility. I'd walked in the doors [01:01:00] attempt that, um, which happened to be the largest facility that they have on the globe and yeah. Yeah, that was that was quite quite an experience. And then I started traveling and consulting.

I started working on, uh, S. A. P. upgrades and transitions. And yeah, I really I was having a really great time, uh, at at Kubota, but at the same time, I just didn't really quite feel like I was on the path that I wanted to be on. because I was working for somebody else and I just am such an 

Brad Minus: entrepreneur. 

Massimo Rigotti: I was like, I was, it's like, I could stay here and like, no, I'm not going to do it.

I, I really, I got up one morning, I looked in the mirror, I'm like, and I asked myself whether or not I wanted to keep doing this. And I told myself, no. And so I went in and I gave my notice. And I, like so many other things in my career, as you picked up by now, I had no idea what I was going to do. [01:02:00] I just went in and handed my notice in.

I really didn't have a clue. 

Brad Minus: That's a knowledge. I mean it for it sounds like it fulfilled its purpose. I mean you were homeless finally sober Now at least you had this the idea was for you to go in and have money You probably didn't realize that you're going to spend three years there 

Massimo Rigotti: No, it ended up being almost five.

But yeah by the time it was done So I worked a couple years in that but once I hit that level, you know, so it it It was, it was a great experience. I mean, like in, in such an awesome company, I mean, such an awesome company. They were so good to me. Um, it's amazing. But the one thing that I hope that everyone takes away from that is that hard work is the most important thing.

You can get anywhere you want. And like, if you just put your, you know, don't, don't tell anybody what you're capable of. Just show them. Because if you show them people will just, you know, I spent all my time around there being afraid somebody would find out I was homeless, which nobody ever did. Um, because when I first started there, I was sleeping on a friend's, uh, uh, uh, in [01:03:00] living room on the floor every night.

Uh, like for the first, like three months I was working there, I was sober, but I like, he needed a place to stay. He goes, well, if you can stay sober, you can stay here every night. So, you know, so I mean, like I was always afraid of, uh, there was some fear there too, but so I walked away from all that. And, um, and I started doing, uh, business consulting and that's, it's kind of like what I continued to do until Samantha was tragically murdered.

Um, and that happened on, um, August 1st of 2020. And she was killed by a drunk driver. And, um, yeah, it just, It was a lot. She meant so much to me. She meant the world to me, really. And I, it took, it, it, it's still painful. Um, I can imagine. Because it's just, [01:04:00] there's so much that you don't know about someone who's taken so young.

I mean, she was, she was just three months shy of her 24. Fifth birthday. So she, she was, or it is just like, yeah, just too young. 

Brad Minus: I, I can, ima I can imagine. And then, you know, and now you're, but you also, you're also in the midst of the pandemic and uh, you know what I mean? So I mean, it it where she in Alabama when this happened?

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, yeah. 

Brad Minus: That was in Mobile, Alabama. And, um, so getting out. Just to get out to go to the didn't happen. It didn't happen. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, it couldn't happen. And as a matter of fact, like, uh, the event that the University of South Alabama had for her, um, was all socially distanced. They had, you were standing like 12 ft apart in this big park.

I'm like, it was like an unmemorial in a sense, you know, it just, you know, Um, it was kind of sad that [01:05:00] didn't get that closeness that you would have wanted. And I often, and I often think too, that when, when people see the, and I've been asked this before without people reading the book, did she die of COVID because you see the 2020 death date and, and, and it was nothing to do with that at all, but, um, but she, she really.

She changed my life and and and maybe who I am today and I'm so thankful for that that opportunity and I know that she's up there smiling down on me and happy about where I'm at. And that's what I have to just carry forth on. And so what happened last year in. was the sentencing because because of COVID, the trial got dragged and kicked and punted and so many times before it finally went to trial in 2023.

And I testified at sentencing and, and just, you know, of course you share how much somebody meant to you. It's, it's really just more for the [01:06:00] judge to hear that, you know, this person really touched people's lives. And I was driving back to Lincoln. Um, and I was just outside of Nashville. It's like, what am I doing with my life?

You know, like, is this the end? Am I like, just going to help? You know, consult small businesses for the rest of my life. This doesn't seem like a good thing to do And I just I just decided I it's like it was like a bolt of lightning type of thought and I I just you know What i'm gonna talk about sobriety i'm gonna write another book I'm gonna figure out how to do like touch on this deeper and make it easier to understand what i'm doing um And i'm gonna dedicate the rest of my life to her memory to samantha's memory and and that's what i've done since um, so 

Brad Minus: Yeah, that's That's, that's what I love, you know, about people like you, me, and a lot of other people that I've had on the, on the show is the ability to take something that was so, you know, it was tough, it was, it was adverse, it was, uh, [01:07:00] hard, you know, things that, and that's my biggest thing.

And then my message to people is doing stuff that's hard and then helping other people. Do things that are hard coming up with ideas and, and, and, um, methodologies that can help them along the way, different ways to think about things. Cause you know, and I do it in coaching as well. I do an endurance coaching is that, you know, one way of doing something, my methodology might not work for everybody.

Right. But there's a methodology. That's why there's that's why you have different coaches and different, different methodologies. You, um, and I'm gonna ask you about that in a minute. Um, but, you know, there's, uh, we have what we call periodization. And then there's, um, there's a, uh, you know, micro and macro periodization.

And then, you know, there's always these different ways to go about it. Um, and some people, the way they teach it and the way they don't, uh, is, you know, we'll be able to, you know, Resonate with one person and not another. Um, that's why it's great that, you know, you [01:08:00] talking to, talking to a coach, whether it be business consulting, whether it be a sobriety coach, whether it be an endurance coach, whether it be a business coach, um, that you talk with them and then you, you know, put yourself involved and find out what their methodology is and find out that it resonates with you.

And that it's okay to say no, right? You don't feel like you got to be nice about it. You just have to say, you know what, I'm listening to you and what you're saying doesn't resonate. I'm going to, I'm going to move on. And that coach should be like, you know what, that's fine. Because the people that don't resonate with you become the hot, become high maintenance.

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, yeah, they're looking. The reason that people that in coaching, this is something that is often missed, I think, by, unfortunately, by a lot of coaches, those high maintenance, uh, clients are that way because you're not fulfilling a need that they have and you don't understand what that need is. And the greatest thing, um, coach should do at that point is like, we need to find a coach [01:09:00] that better matches your mindset because I'm not connecting with you in a way that is pushing you forward.

And, um, yeah, that's, that's so important. Um, well, I, I'm a competitive figure skater. I don't know if, if you knew that or not, but it's another, you know, like notch that we have in my, my realm. So, uh, so, so. Three years. That's amazing. 

Brad Minus: Three years ago. When, where did you have time to become a competitive figure skater?

Massimo Rigotti: Well, three years ago, I was like, you know what? what I need to do something and and and to like really improve my health for the long term. And one, I don't like being hot. So you know, those long days of running cross country were not the most fun days of my life. But uh, so I'd always wanted to ice skate, you know, and maybe play hockey.

So I went and decided I'd become a figure skater. [01:10:00] And that's what I've done. So this lays into this whole coaching conversation is that the coaches I've had along the way, you reach a certain point, then it's like, you know what, this isn't really quite working for me. And I think I need to seek out another coach.

I've had to have that conversation a couple of times just to find the right personality and the right, you know, way of pushing you because that's, that's what's like so important. Um, and, um, so yeah, it's something I really enjoy. I've gotten relatively good at it. I'm, I'm, I'm just, uh, uh, a shade under, I'm a pre bronze level, uh, skater, which doesn't mean anything to you or maybe most of your listeners, but for, for an adult, that means like I'm right at the borderline of, of being, a true competitive figure skater.

Uh, you know, I'm not going to find myself in the Olympics, obviously, but, uh, I, I'm, uh, I'm pushing forward and probably will nail my axle sometime in the next year. [01:11:00] I mean, that's a big, big milestone. Um, and I really, I'm super involved in my, uh, club here in, uh, Lincoln. I'm, I'm Santa Claus and, uh, our upcoming.

coming holiday show. So that should be fun. Uh, 

Brad Minus: so, so yeah. All right, everybody, just to make sure you listen and, you know, listen, remember this name, Massimo, Massimo. You know, cause you know, you might find him as the oldest living figure, uh, uh, Olympic figure skater to ever grace the ice. 

Massimo Rigotti: You never know. I mean, like, I gotta, I gotta keep pushing myself.

Brad Minus: So, um, yeah, you know, I mean, you never know, you don't even want to doubt the alternate for the, uh, for the American, for the USA team. By the time you get there, 57 year old 

Massimo Rigotti: Rossimo Riccati takes the ice. I love it. Yeah, totally. No, 

Brad Minus: I, that's, you know what, that is something I am told. I, I am like, I love that because that is my message.

That is literally my biggest message to people. That [01:12:00] if you want to change your life, you need to do something that's hard. You need to do something that's completely out of your realm. Something that's completely uncomfortable. So the, and I've told the story. I don't know what, you're going to be episode 61, maybe 45 times.

Um, but basically, you know, my idea was that I had somebody that was, uh, uh, a friend of mine that was five, four and like 250 pounds. Right. And she wanted to get, she wanted to get fit and she wanted to get better, but she had, you know, realized that, that the typical, I'm going to diet. I'm gonna go to the gym.

I'm gonna do all that stuff that just wasn't for her. And, and she just happened to be skipping around on the channels and she found Ironman Kona. And she's like, Huh, that's interesting. And she started doing her research, figured out that, you know, there's a lot of different Ironmans around Ironman competitions.

And she's like, well, Ironman, Florida, that's right here in my backyard. Couldn't, you know, couldn't [01:13:00] swim. Couldn't couldn't bike. Couldn't couldn't couldn't run. Well, she, she started running five cases. That's like a sound coins. And she took the next 18 months and fricking just went to town. She didn't think about.

dieting. She didn't think about getting stronger. All she thought about was getting to the start line healthy and educated. And, you know, it's got all, all the things that you need to finish the race. And she went and stood on the beach in a size small wetsuit weighing 120 pounds. 

Massimo Rigotti: Awesome. You know, awesome.

Good for her. 

Brad Minus: Oh, not to mention that she did an 11 hour and 25 minute Ironman, which for a brand, for anybody brand new to the sport is awesome. Is like an amazing, amazing time. Um, so I was, you know, so, but that's what I mean though, is that you decided that, hey, I need to get fit. Well, I'm, I don't like running outside and I'm much of a gym guy.

Let's do something else. I'm going to become a [01:14:00] competitive figure skater. Yeah, completely out of your realm, completely the whole bit. Just the idea that you, you liked it. And that's what I tell people. I'm like, find something that just, you can't even think that you could possibly do. That will, that could possibly get those smaller goals on the way, you know, cat shows, Ironman, you chose, uh, you chose figure skating.

I got people that like had no freaking experience were sedentary and climbed, uh, Kilimanjaro and like literally on their way to climbing Everest. That is St. Helen's and Kilimanjaro, then Everest. I hear people that didn't do anything in their, in their life. Now they've done the 24 hour, um, championship Tough Mudder, which is 24 hours and it's, and it's, uh, and it's loops.

And how many loops can you do of 28 different obstacles in a five mile? And in a five mile loop, you know, and it goes on for 24 hours. I've got people that, you know, couldn't run a lick. They're running 100 mile races, 135 [01:15:00] mile races in Death Valley. Um, you know what I mean? And these are, you know, but they had these certain goals and they're like, well, you know what?

First of all, looking at the freaking scale, looking at yourself in the mirror, trying to look better. Um, that's freaking boring. You know, um, now people find the gym very, very motivational and I give them credit for that. But the idea that, all right, I want to get, I want to lose weight. I want to get fit. I want to look better.

Um, but those are just working on those things. is limiting. But if I go, all right, I'm going to go climb fricking Kilimanjaro and I train for it and I do all that stuff on the way there. Well, it's a lot more fun thinking about going, being at the base of Kilimanjaro and knowing that you're going to hike up it rather than All I'm thinking about is Oh, what's this?

What is this next spoonful? How many calories is it? All right, fine. Okay, I can put it in my mouth. Oh, this next one. Oh, that's not enough. I got to [01:16:00] drop it down. You know what I mean? It's so much more fun just thinking about that than it is, you know, these little tinier things. And I love that what you're doing, you decided to get fit by, you know, taking on something that you've always loved.

You always wanted to learn and now you're learning it. And now you're you're at that point where you're going to be competitive. That's awesome. Transcribed 

Massimo Rigotti: I think it comes down to the passion for it. You know, if you're and I really haven't I lost 50 pounds. So, I mean, it really had a, um, had a very positive impact on me.

And not only that, it showed up in, like, everything I did. Now, mind you, I have destroyed my body with addiction and everything else that I did along the way. And I've had the same physician since I was 16 years old. And when I went in for my physical this January, this past January, he busted out my 16 year old physical to show me that I was actually in better shape now than I was at 16.

Wow, 

Brad Minus: that's crazy. 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Hey, [01:17:00] Curiosity. Does he talk to you about like biological age versus chronological age? 

Massimo Rigotti: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. 

Brad Minus: What did he say about your biological age? I'm curious. 

Massimo Rigotti: He said my biological age is 34. Nice! 

Brad Minus: That's amazing! 

Massimo Rigotti: Yeah, because I'm 49, so that's impressive. I mean, just thinking about everything I did to my body, the mere fact that it's sitting there, it just blows my mind.

But it also shows you the restorative power. And I think you can appreciate this for, for the. Coaching you do the restorative power of your own body. It's highly restorative. You just have to quit doing all the horrible things to it and it will repair itself. I mean, it really will. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. I, and I, and I take that, I take that very seriously about, about things, you know what I mean?

You know, people, letting people know that, Hey, you know what? I know that I've, I've on your plan is like one and a half hours today, but that doesn't, that doesn't stop there [01:18:00] besides your recovery process. Besides your nutrition, you need to remain active. You need to keep walking. You need, you need, you need to be at a standing desk or, you know, changing out your, your position.

You need to walk around and, you know, you've got to remain active. So, and that's, that's restorative as well. So the last question I got for you is, can you give us a little bit on the S O B E R method? Just to kind of give an overview and then we'll, we'll exit. We'll, we'll, we'll finish out and, um, and we'll say goodbye.

Massimo Rigotti: All right. Well, sounds great, Brad. It's it's obviously, it's been a great conversation. I think we can go another hour. We get to really have a long form if they, oh, we could, so. So sober the sober method this this all came about from me working with Um a coach that I had so I had created this flavors of confidence method and it was 10 steps And it was a little complicated and I would I shared it with a bunch of people in various [01:19:00] aa meetings Like well, what are you doing?

You know, you only show up to get your chips I'm, like well i'm doing this, you know, and and so I would tell people about it and they're like no wait Wait a second. So what is step six again? And I was like I realized this is Way too complicated. I wonder if I could boil it down into something that people could remember and then follow.

So my thought was, of course, it went into marketing and branding, one of my original baselines. And I thought, I wonder if sober is available. And, and so I did some research and like, I can't believe it's 2023 and sober method for sobriety is actually something that isn't a something. And so that's what I decided.

And then I kind of worked backwards into how I was going to utilize my 10 steps and roll it into five. So sober stands for stoic, observe behavior, execute and restore. Nice. And one of the most important things that I heard a lot at AA is a lot of people in today's Age are [01:20:00] uncomfortable with how much religious, leaning there is within the program.

And I feel that stoicism provides. Many of the same fundamental, uh, philosophies, but it is not alienating to literally any race, creed, or religion, you know, stoicism can bind like the entire planet. It's, it's really good ancient philosophy. So the way that it works is that you actually, and I always recommend like use Marcus Aurelius, uh, uh, Uh, meditations is a good starting point.

Like literally just go pick out a verse, read that verse and then write down in journal. Like, how does this verse apply to me? What is going on here? What could I correct in my own life as it applies to this? Then you want to take, go to the next step and then you're going to observe, like take a very good holistic view of like, how do you interact as it pertains to this one thing in your life?[01:21:00] 

and observe your behavior related to it. Okay, what could you do differently that maybe wouldn't want you to drink or use? When these things happened. And so you kind of chart out your behavior as you're moving into the B step. It's like, okay, here's my behavior when this happens. And you use actually a behavior chain, which many people are familiar with if they're in a sobriety journey and map out your behavior.

So when this happens, then this happens, okay, well, here's this alternate and you kind of decide what you're going to do. Uh, and then as you're going to actually now test it, that's the execute step. So put yourself in a situation that you know you would normally do something and see whether or not your, your, your behavior change that you map for yourself works.

If it works good for you, you get to move to step. R. it didn't work back to step B. you're, you're actually going to remap it again. Then you're going to try it again. And then when you get to the restore step. It's all [01:22:00] about looking at those that may have been impacted by this behavior change that you've made in yourself.

And this is, you're making amends, the classic, making amends to people that may have been in, you know, hurt, injured, whatever in the past by you. Having this old behavior that you've now modified and reaching out to them. And I always, I stress that, you know, forgiveness doesn't mean you're going to be best buddies and hang out with them anymore.

This just means you're going to, you know, find your forgiveness and shake hands and be on your way. You don't have to restore relationships. You just want to restore, you know, restore that. Everything's even. And then you go back to step s. And so this, this works on for those that have been in manufacturing or anything.

This works on the Deming cycle. You know, we're like, just going to self improve ourselves in a continuous improvement cycle. Like, we're manufacturing a better you. That's that's it's really, um, just 1 step at a time. I'm literally on [01:23:00] my 127th pass through the system right now, and, uh, I eat my own dog food for sure.

I really believe in the system. It works and slowly over time, you just find yourself in a whole different spot and the reactions that you once had on things. Is completely different. I find myself sometimes actually stopping and going, wow, did I just say that? I mean, like old me would have done this and I can't even believe I just reacted that way without thinking about it.

And when you get to that point, man, life's pretty easy. 

Brad Minus: That's That's incredible. And I love it. It's so, it's so refined. Uh, it's, and in my, in my, in my work and stuff with athletes, it's efficient. Um, but I get, I get what you meant about the religious side. Um, heard a modification of the serenity prayer.

And literally it just starts out with, I [01:24:00] grant myself. The strength, you know, I grant my, I grant myself the, the, the ability to accept the things I cannot change the strength, to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference they've taken God completely out of it, but they internalize it and say, no, I'm going to grant myself the strength.

Um, and stoicism or not, but I love that fact that people have just like taken the power and they've internalized it. I have no problem. I have no problem externalizing it with a faith that you believe in. Yeah, no issue with that. If that gives you strength and ability to do it, knock yourself out, go crazy.

I don't have an issue with it. But for those that are questioning any kind of religious ties they've had in the, in their past, they grew up with it or whatever. I love this new version of I grant myself. No. Yeah, absolutely. So, but yes, Mossimo, man, this [01:25:00] has been amazing. And like you said, we could probably go on and on and on and on.

Um, I just, uh, this just to wrap up here. So you can go to, uh, mossimo regatti. com and you'll be able to see all of, all of what we've talked about and you can book them as a speaker. You can, you can check out the books, flavors of flavors of confidence, a reflection for those in need. And flavors of confidence, S O B E R method, uh, the sober method.

Um, and check those out on Amazon. Again, those links will be. In the show notes. Um, so you can always take a look there and it looks like, um, you're more active on YouTube and Tik TOK. 

Massimo Rigotti: Uh, TOK. Yeah. And if anyone wants to connect with me directly, pretty active on X. Uh, so, and, but YouTube and Tik TOK are my two active, uh, post platforms.

Brad Minus: Great. So we'll put those links in the show notes as [01:26:00] well. And again, you know, I think this has been extremely informative and there's a lot of great little nuggets that I talk about, you know, like I said, that if you, you take one nugget away from you, that's going to help propel you in the direction that you want to go to reach your full potential.

We've done our job and there's been a lot in this one. So definitely if you, if you've heard it once rewind and I guess they don't do that anymore. Play it again. Um, and go through it. Um, there'll be some nuggets in the notes. There's always a blog post on a life changing challengers. com that accompanies this.

Uh, so you'll be able to check that out. And then if you happen to check out the YouTube version of this, I really appreciate if you hit subscribe, like and hit that notification bell. So you always know when there's another episode dropping. And if you're on Apple. Or on Spotify, please go ahead and leave a review, even if it's a bad review, because that's feedback to help me make this show as best as I possibly can.

So thank you so much, everyone. Thank you for listening. [01:27:00] Thank you, Massimo. And for the rest of you, we'll see you in