The Intersection of Architecture, Art, and Mental Health with Ruth Poniarkski

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Hey and welcome back to another episode of Life Changing Calendars.

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I'm your host, brad Minus, but with me today.

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I'm so honored to have Ruth Poniarski.

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She is an artist and with you know the painting stuff.

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She's also a writer.

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She has a book out called Journey to Self and I am very happy to have her on and very honored Ruth, how are you today?

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I'm great.

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Thank you for having me.

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Definitely so.

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As I ask every single one of my guests, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood?

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What was the complement of your family?

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What the environment was like?

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Okay, I grew up in Glen Cove, long Island, new York, a little city amongst an island, and I had a pretty good childhood.

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It was a post-war, post-world War II.

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A lot of children in the neighborhood, my parents.

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We had a split-level home amongst other homes.

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They had a community beach.

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I went to the public schools and my brother and I spent a lot of time outside playing all the time.

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It was a different time than today and we went on little ski trips and we rode through routes through New York up to Vermont when the interstate highways weren't there as yet.

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It was a real adventure.

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Life was an adventure.

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Interstate highways weren't there as yet.

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It was a real adventure.

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Life was an adventure.

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And as far as art, I was introduced to art by my mother, who was a little bit eccentric.

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She took me to a life drawing class when I was about six and a half years old.

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There was a nude model, a nude woman model, and she said to me I want you to draw.

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You know everybody in the class were going to be drawing and depicting this nude model and she told me not to laugh.

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Well, I didn't laugh.

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I took her very seriously and I drew this Picasso-like drawing of this nude model and I got the torso correct.

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It was like very much ahead of its time, precocious.

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I was precocious in art.

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She always said to me Ruthie, I don't want you to become an artist, it's too lonely, it's hard to make a living, you'll be isolated and whatnot.

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So I took a direction.

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I went to public school and I excelled in math and I excelled in physics and art.

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So I put all those things together and I decided to pursue architecture.

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So I enrolled in a very difficult technical school up north I won't say any names Rensselaer Polytech.

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It was second to MIT, very difficult program and I really had a very difficult term and my story the book Journey of the Self, starts in 1977, when I was in my third or fourth year of a five year architecture program, and it continues to 1987, which was the heart of my episodes that I have been suffering.

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But I have to bring you back to the beginning in 1977.

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Sure, tell us all about it, okay.

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So my troubles really started in 1976.

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In my sophomore year I was in like an Archie clit I call them Archies, they're architect students, my peers Archies, and we were a group of about eight of us in the collective and we would do projects together and spend all nighters doing design projects.

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Very tedious program, asked a lot of you and a lot of your creativity.

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It was straining but it was rewarding creativity it was straining but it was rewarding.

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Anyway, we indulged in smoking marijuana at these little parties and cooking delicious meals.

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One time I smoked so much I blacked out.

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I was like comatose, blacked out for about four hours, woke up to myself.

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Boy, I'm lucky.

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I woke up and I said after that moment I did not smoke marijuana anymore, hardly drank any alcohol that was an addition, but I never, never.

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I went clean.

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It's too much.

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But it left me lethargic, passive in my studies, goalless.

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I had a difficult time setting small goals.

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It left me a little paranoid and depressed and a low self-esteem.

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These are all shady but lingering with me throughout my years.

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So you had done marijuana prior to this.

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Prior to the 1977 incident.

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Yeah, no, no, but I mean prior to the incident where you'd smoked so much that you were passed out for a few hours.

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You had done it prior to that.

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This was in 1976.

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Right right, 1977.

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Okay, then it hit.

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I went off the edge and I'll tell you how I went off the edge.

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But I went off the edge and I'll tell you how I went off the edge In 1977, the fall of 1977, my fourth year, my boyfriend did not return.

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We were very close, we were going out since our junior year and he transferred to another college in another continent.

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So I never saw him again and it kind of left me again.

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It left me isolated and alone because he was really my buddy.

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And also why I felt also isolated, I had dropped the core design course in the architecture program.

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In my junior year I found it, I couldn't do it.

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Instead I took an art course, but that course really unified my classmates.

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We were together in the design.

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The design was the core of the whole program.

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I had dropped it.

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So in my senior year, when my boyfriend didn't return, I felt really alone because he became my buddy.

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So that's the backdrop of all this.

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Meanwhile the lingering effects from the marijuana were still lingering and there I befriended an older gentleman.

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He was about 28 years old, he was a graduate of the architecture program.

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I kind of looked up to him.

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I liked him in a platonic kind of a way, very friendly kind of a way, support kind of a way.

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He was mysterious, very quiet, nice, a little bit off, anyway.

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Serious, very quiet, nice, a little bit off.

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Anyway, he and his roommate had a little party at their apartment.

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I had just returned from a weekend with my parents for Thanksgiving.

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It was a Sunday evening and I had gone to the party and his roommate was a PhD physics student and his roommate was a PhD physics student and he had fellow PhD physics students come to the party.

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I said this is terrific, I love to talk.

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I talked the whole party Didn't eat anything, didn't drink anything, the whole party.

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I talked with all these majors.

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Came time to the end of the party, everybody left and I stayed behind because I was close.

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We'll call him Joseph.

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I call him Joseph in the book.

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I was close with Joseph and his roommate, which his name was Hans, and I was sitting there and Joseph offers me a brownie, delicious brownie cake.

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Well, I ate it, beautiful cake, because I was hungry and I didn't know.

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I just took it.

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It was laced with PCP, very like angel dust, which is a additive for large animals like.

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Well are large animals like horses and elephants okay, so PCP is actually a hallucinogen in it.

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That's what it is.

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It's a medication for large animals.

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So it's PPP.

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That's what it is.

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I hallucinated.

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I saw a bed of white candles in a cavernous space.

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I wanted to jump out of the window.

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Joseph held a bath to be shelving out the window.

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I went off the edge For about an hour.

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I had to sit down and calm myself down.

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Then I left his apartment.

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I got into my car.

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I started driving aimlessly.

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All of a sudden, a paranoid ideation came over me that there was a revolution going on between the capitalists and the socialists and I was going to be abandoned and my people were leaving in spaceships.

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This is going through my head and I'm driving.

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I drive to Route 90, and I drove west to New York State Thruway, a highway, a state highway, that goes to Buffalo all the way down to New York City.

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I get on it going south towards New York City.

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I abandoned my car on the shoulder of the highway.

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I parked it on the shoulder, I got out of my car, I started walking, looking for the base launch pads for the spaceship in my head.

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I walked on the shoulder of the highway south and I walked probably from midnight till dawn till the sun came up about 12 miles, I finally hitched a ride back to my college town, troy, where my apartment was located.

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The guy left me off.

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He didn't come back with me because he was afraid of what people would think of him, but anyway he let me off at the beginning of town.

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I walked several blocks to my apartment.

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In my apartment was Joseph and his roommate, my two female roommates, and my father was.

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Joseph and his roommate, my two female roommates and my father, who came from Glen Cove.

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How did he get there?

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It was unbelievable.

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The state police looked in my car and found a registration to my father's business.

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So they called the business and told him that they found his daughter's car my car and he came immediately up to my apartment.

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That's why he was there, anyway.

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So I was still in a paranoid state and I was in my own bubble of fantasy and my father took me home to Long Island.

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I had to abort the architecture program.

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That was it.

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He took me to a psychiatrist when we got to Long Island and the psychiatrist told him that I had a nervous breakdown.

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And then the psychiatrist said I can heal at home.

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So my father took me home.

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I was very quiet, I didn't say a word.

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This was like the first time in a doctor's office, a psychiatrist's office, anyway.

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So he took me home, and my mother wasn't exactly the nurturing, loving type, and she had a hard time dealing with the reality of what I just the scope of what I just went through.

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Anyway, though, what she did was she had me do art projects every day for the next two or three weeks.

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We would do collages, cutouts.

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I did a painting of apples, I did other little projects.

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I would have a structured day, three meals a day.

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Everything was structured, everything was stress-free.

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Actually everything that they talk about now.

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Oh yes, she was ahead of her time.

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Yeah.

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So I just want to step back just real quick.

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When you talk to the therapist and probably what some of the that you lived through and also probably in the research that you've done was in that time period, was that a kind of a default diagnosis that you had a nervous breakdown?

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At that point he couldn't pinpoint if I was a paranoid schizophrenic, he couldn't pinpoint any of that.

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He didn't know me, I wasn't a bipolar or any of those things, bipolar or any of those things.

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He just said that I the nervous breakdown, I guess, is a lay term, a layman's term, but that's what he, that's what he said, and there was no real, there was no what's the word?

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Because he didn't really know me.

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He just saw me for a half an hour, you know, and he and my father told him what happened.

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I wasn't talking at all, I was just, I'm still, I was thinking still that the revolution was going on in my head, oh you know.

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But he said that I didn't have to go to the hospital.

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Okay, all right, well, that makes sense.

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He took a risk in saying that, but I did get back.

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He gave me also this medication called Thorazine, which is like a staple of that time.

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And eventually I was able to sleep.

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I couldn't sleep.

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I was so overtired and over manic that I couldn't sleep.

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But around the second or third day I was able to sleep and the sleeping was healing.

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You need sleep.

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Insomnia is a very big problem.

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A lot of people have insomnia.

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So I got better and then I went to work part-time for my father.

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He was in the construction roofing business and eventually I transferred to another architecture program in Brooklyn architecture program in Brooklyn.

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So I commuted from Glen Cove to Brooklyn every day.

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In this architecture program I was able to transfer credits, whatnot.

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Now that nervous breakdown was the first of many.

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Every six months to about a year I would break down.

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Now this psychiatrist I would say he was an invasive.

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I call him Dr Samuels.

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He was an invasive psychiatrist.

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I say that because my symptoms kept getting worse with each breakdown and he didn't alert me to the signs of an oncoming breakdown.

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He wasn't able me to the signs of an oncoming breakdown.

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He wasn't able to identify the trigger.

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Yeah Well, not only what triggered me, but with the symptoms.

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My symptoms were not eating, not sleeping, paranoid, insecure, and also what happened was my self-esteem compounded.

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I had a very low self-esteem and I was in a lingering depression and that all, as I said, started from the marijuana that I smoked.

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It never went away.

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It would surface.

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So things compounded, it, compounded, compounded, it compounded.

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And what triggered me?

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Like going to the architecture program again.

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It was a difficult program.

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You were always forced to be creative and creating buildings and whatnot, and social stimulus would really get me off the line and I didn't share with anybody what I was going through every six months to a year.

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So I had friends but they were sort of superficial.

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I couldn't really be truthful or lean on them or anything like that.

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I didn't tell them what was happening.

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I was ashamed of it.

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Mental illness back then it wasn't talked about, it wasn't tell them what was happening.

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I was ashamed of it.

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Mental illness back then.

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It wasn't talked about, it wasn't out in the open, it wasn't anything like that.

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So that compounded also.

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That really added to my low self-esteem and I thought that everybody around me was superior and they were going on with their lives and they were getting things done and they were graduating and all kinds of stuff that ran through my head.

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Anyway, I had a lot of superficial acquaintances.

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I traveled to Finland with a seminar group from the school for about two or three weeks.

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We studied the works of Alvar Alter Beautiful, beautiful architecture, wooden, beautiful wood architecture in Finland.

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We were there for two and a half three weeks.

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It took me about till 1981, 82 to graduate from this program.

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But all during these breakdowns that I would have, I led a life.

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I had superficial friends.

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I had boyfriends.

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I traveled alone to Europe.

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I traveled alone to Paris.

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I was okay because I lived in an apartment with an elderly Lebanese woman and her son.

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I was okay.

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I made a trip to Greece.

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That was a disaster.

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That happened in 1980.

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What happened was with my symptoms.

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My insomnia kept getting worse and worse.

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This trip I went to tour the ancient ruins of Greece.

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It was a seven-day, very stressful bus tour.

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I was one of the only Americans on the tour and nobody was my age group.

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They were all a little bit older than me or older than me.

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So I kind of below I befriended an elderly gentleman but I was really alone and they weren't exactly friendly to me, the Europeans.

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They spoke other languages.

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The tour guide spoke English.

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She was very good, very knowledgeable of all the rulings in Greece.

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Very knowledgeable, very tedious.

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Anyway, I went without sleep.

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Each night I went without sleep, I didn't eat, I didn't change my clothes.

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I went seven days without sleep.

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Whoa yeah, seven days.

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It just compounded itself and my feelings inside, plus the stress of the trip, just compounded itself, didn't get that sleep.

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I went back to Athens, we landed back and we started in Athens and then the tour ended in Athens.

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I was in a hotel.

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This was the sixth night and what I couldn't sleep.

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I was just.

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It was just tense and paranoid and then just my body.

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I was disengaged and I was with reality and I was just tense and about.

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I couldn't sleep.

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So at about 1130 or 12 o'clock I walked out of the hotel.

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This was in Athens.

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So this is midnight and I'm walking around Athens.

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Luckily a Greek soldier was around.

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He asked me if I had a light for his cigarette and I said no, I don't have a light for your cigarette.

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I'm sorry he goes let.

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He said, let me escort you around Athens.

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So he and I I locked out because there were dangerous citizens of Athens.

00:18:39.622 --> 00:18:55.213
He walked, we walked all over Athens and then about 6 am or 7 am in the morning, when the sun rose, we parted and I went and packed my things, got my bag ready and I took a taxi to the airport.

00:18:55.859 --> 00:19:02.913
Now I was supposed to go to Club Med on an island for another week, but I didn't do that.

00:19:02.913 --> 00:19:05.111
I knew enough to return to New York.

00:19:05.111 --> 00:19:15.708
In the airport I'm lugging my luggage and I get this attendant and I tell the attendant I've got to go back to New York, I'm sick, I'm not well.

00:19:15.708 --> 00:19:19.580
She got me on the next flight to New York Doesn't stop there.

00:19:19.580 --> 00:19:21.082
I get on the flight.

00:19:21.082 --> 00:19:25.224
It's a big two-story 747.

00:19:26.045 --> 00:19:30.488
I'm sitting by the window seat and there was a young woman next to me.

00:19:30.488 --> 00:19:34.171
I didn't say a word, she didn't say anything.

00:19:34.171 --> 00:19:35.592
I was no word at all.

00:19:35.592 --> 00:19:42.256
I'm sitting there and there are these two young guys in back of me, seated in back of me.

00:19:42.256 --> 00:19:44.377
I thought that they were talking about me.

00:19:44.377 --> 00:19:48.305
I looked terrible, I looked disheveled, a little dirty.

00:19:48.305 --> 00:19:53.300
I hadn't eaten, I hadn't bathed, I hadn't done anything today, anyway.

00:19:53.300 --> 00:19:54.022
So the two men.

00:19:54.022 --> 00:20:06.929
I thought they were making fun of me, so I stood up, I looked at them and I slapped one of the men in the face, across the face, like that, and everybody stood silent.

00:20:06.929 --> 00:20:09.489
They thought there was going to be a brawl or something.

00:20:09.489 --> 00:20:14.189
I turned around, I crossed over the young woman.

00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:16.428
I went down the aisle in the plane.

00:20:16.428 --> 00:20:24.039
I went up the stairs the first class was upstairs and I went and I took a seat the first class people.

00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:24.865
They were just going about their business.

00:20:24.865 --> 00:20:25.308
They didn't even know it was upstairs.

00:20:25.308 --> 00:20:25.742
And I went and I took a seat the first class people.

00:20:25.742 --> 00:20:26.513
They were just going about their business.

00:20:26.513 --> 00:20:27.915
They didn't even know what was happening.

00:20:27.915 --> 00:20:30.701
And I sat there for the duration of the flight.

00:20:30.701 --> 00:20:35.089
The flight attendant gave me a piece of cake.

00:20:35.089 --> 00:20:36.373
They thought I was tripping.

00:20:36.373 --> 00:20:42.387
They all thought I was tripping on LSD or something which I wasn't.

00:20:42.387 --> 00:20:47.575
I was in the middle of a nervous breakdown and I sat there.

00:20:47.575 --> 00:20:54.943
It must have been a good three or four or five hours or whatever the time was, until we got back to New York.

00:20:54.983 --> 00:20:57.529
When we got back to New York, everybody emptied the plane.

00:20:57.529 --> 00:21:03.189
I was sitting there, the attendant was next to me and he made sure that I was seated and not moved.

00:21:03.189 --> 00:21:05.773
The transportation police came up.

00:21:05.773 --> 00:21:20.172
They handcuffed me and they took me to the transportation police and they said you're lucky that the gentleman is not pressing charges.

00:21:20.172 --> 00:21:23.766
So I had them call my father.

00:21:23.766 --> 00:21:28.299
My father came, he picked me up and we went to my evasive psychiatrist.

00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:34.779
The evasive psychiatrist said you can go home with your father.

00:21:34.779 --> 00:21:42.743
I had a little apartment at that point and he said I didn't have to be hospitalized.

00:21:42.743 --> 00:21:45.867
So again I went back.

00:21:45.867 --> 00:21:47.090
It it took me again.

00:21:47.090 --> 00:21:47.981
I had Thorazine.

00:21:47.981 --> 00:21:52.750
It took me a long while before I can actually go to sleep.

00:21:52.750 --> 00:21:56.528
I didn't sleep the first night, I think.

00:21:56.528 --> 00:22:03.067
From then I went to my parents' house and I convalesced for a couple of weeks, whatever it took, and I got better.

00:22:03.067 --> 00:22:05.133
So each time I would go through these things.

00:22:05.133 --> 00:22:14.467
It took me three to four to five weeks and then I would come out of it and then I would resume my life, whether it was school, I eventually got a job in the field.

00:22:14.467 --> 00:22:17.113
So that happened.

00:22:17.113 --> 00:22:21.287
That was one of my breakdowns Now with this evasive doctor.

00:22:21.969 --> 00:22:25.703
He never said don't travel to Europe alone, face of doctor.

00:22:25.703 --> 00:22:28.109
You never said don't travel to Europe alone.

00:22:28.109 --> 00:22:30.135
You never said keep your stimulus low.

00:22:30.135 --> 00:22:33.859
No-transcript, take one day at a time.

00:22:33.859 --> 00:22:35.863
He never advised me to take one day at a time.

00:22:35.863 --> 00:22:46.306
Another factor of my insomnia I always dreamt or imagined that I was going to be abandoned to an apocalyptic world, like the first breakdown I had.

00:22:46.306 --> 00:22:53.249
I imagined my people were going to be leaving and abandoning me and I was going to be left to be persecuted.

00:22:53.249 --> 00:22:55.700
This went on in my head each time.

00:22:55.700 --> 00:23:09.455
This pattern of thought, this pattern of paranoia, would recur every time an episode came on and the doctor never checked, he never went checked.

00:23:09.455 --> 00:23:11.278
All these symptoms were not checked.

00:23:11.278 --> 00:23:12.820
In the end they never went guarded or checked.

00:23:12.820 --> 00:23:16.125
They never went guarded or checked.

00:23:16.125 --> 00:23:27.315
So again, the insomnia became worse, my paranoia ideation became worse, and so forth.

00:23:27.315 --> 00:23:33.567
It culminated, culminated Now, after 1981, I worked in the field of architecture.

00:23:35.414 --> 00:23:36.980
I had jobs.

00:23:36.980 --> 00:23:41.304
I never really the passion wasn't there because of my illness.

00:23:41.304 --> 00:23:46.468
I was very talented in designing and whatever, but I wasn't disciplined in drafting.

00:23:46.468 --> 00:23:47.640
At that time you had to draft.

00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:49.255
They didn't have computer-aided design.

00:23:49.255 --> 00:23:54.967
You had to draw and draft and be very disciplined and come out with beautiful drawings.

00:23:54.967 --> 00:23:55.929
That wasn't me.

00:23:55.929 --> 00:24:01.488
I was good in design but not in depicting the design by drawings.

00:24:01.488 --> 00:24:08.835
So that weighed on me and in the firms I was given rudimentary tasks.

00:24:08.835 --> 00:24:14.208
I never really climbed the ladder in the architecture field or construction field.

00:24:14.208 --> 00:24:17.319
I changed jobs a lot.

00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:18.564
I was going in circles.

00:24:19.506 --> 00:24:29.039
Anyway, in 1984, I had a friend who was participating in a psychological workshop.

00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:44.549
I was led to believe it would give you lectures and talks on how to lead a more assertive life, to get to the direction that you wanted to go to.

00:24:44.549 --> 00:24:47.943
Well, I was completely wrong.

00:24:47.943 --> 00:24:54.448
My impression of the psychological workshop was not accurate.

00:24:54.448 --> 00:25:01.096
Logical workshop was not accurate.

00:25:01.096 --> 00:25:01.237
Oh yes.

00:25:01.257 --> 00:25:04.886
So by then, about a month before, I got a job in an engineering firm that designed highways and I was given some pretty good tasks.

00:25:04.886 --> 00:25:09.423
I didn't talk that much with anybody, which in my previous jobs I would talk too much.

00:25:09.423 --> 00:25:10.666
I became too personal.

00:25:10.666 --> 00:25:12.858
I became paranoid about that.

00:25:12.858 --> 00:25:13.881
That would set me off.

00:25:13.881 --> 00:25:19.239
This time I didn't talk that much to many people, I concentrated more on my job.

00:25:19.239 --> 00:25:20.701
The boss liked me.

00:25:20.701 --> 00:25:28.787
I asked him if I could take three days off to participate in his psychological workshop and he said sure, you can take the time.

00:25:29.855 --> 00:25:33.122
So this was the end of the first month of this job.

00:25:33.122 --> 00:25:35.487
I took the three days off.

00:25:35.487 --> 00:25:38.998
It was a Wednesday, thursday and Friday, and then it went into Saturday and Sunday.

00:25:38.998 --> 00:25:41.384
Wednesday I went to the workshop.

00:25:41.384 --> 00:25:45.804
It was in Manhattan, it was in the Y in Manhattan and I was living in an apartment in a suburb.

00:25:45.804 --> 00:25:48.856
So I had to take the train the first day.

00:25:48.897 --> 00:25:50.702
There were confrontational workshops.

00:25:50.702 --> 00:25:51.925
You had to choose a partner.

00:25:51.925 --> 00:26:09.627
My partner was a very combative kind of guy really weird and the exercises were confrontational, you know, like who could survive in a lifeboat in the middle of the ocean, and you had to get up and talk and talk over the people, things like that.

00:26:09.627 --> 00:26:27.865
It stimulated the wrong part of me and I became very psychologically distraught and it was stressful and these exercises were one thing after another and they ordered you to take notes and they ordered you to do this and it just didn't bode well with me at all.

00:26:27.865 --> 00:26:29.921
So I came back.

00:26:29.921 --> 00:26:32.375
I took the train back to my apartment in the suburbs.

00:26:33.218 --> 00:26:39.698
I was living on the third floor of an apartment building and I didn't get any sleep and I didn't eat.

00:26:39.698 --> 00:26:47.722
And the apartment next door they were renovating the apartment so there was drilling sounds going on all the time Couldn't sleep.

00:26:47.722 --> 00:26:50.387
My paranoia was through the roof.

00:26:50.387 --> 00:26:54.561
I was imagining that they were going to persecute me.

00:26:54.561 --> 00:26:55.523
I was alone.

00:26:55.523 --> 00:26:57.127
My people went away from me.

00:26:57.127 --> 00:27:08.410
I couldn't sleep because I was afraid I would wake up to a world that was a barren world with my people gone and I was going to be left to be persecuted and I was a pariah.

00:27:08.410 --> 00:27:11.901
All these things going through my head, my mind was racing.

00:27:11.901 --> 00:27:12.926
I couldn't really sleep.

00:27:12.926 --> 00:27:18.426
You know how people their minds race and you cannot go to sleep.

00:27:18.426 --> 00:27:19.957
My mind raced.

00:27:19.957 --> 00:27:23.486
So the next day I went back.

00:27:23.886 --> 00:27:27.316
That was Thursday, and I struggled through the whole day.

00:27:27.316 --> 00:27:28.439
I labored through it.

00:27:28.439 --> 00:27:31.769
I managed to get through it, came back, no sleep.

00:27:31.769 --> 00:27:34.596
My symptoms were there.

00:27:34.596 --> 00:27:35.559
They were getting worse.

00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:41.821
So Friday morning I called my psychiatrist, who was about 20, 25 minutes away from where I was living.

00:27:41.821 --> 00:27:44.288
He said don't go back to the workshop.

00:27:44.288 --> 00:27:45.557
I didn't go back.

00:27:45.557 --> 00:27:48.143
My buddy came to my apartment.

00:27:48.143 --> 00:27:53.842
He found my apartment and he was outside my door, knocking on my door, saying you've got to return to the workshop.

00:27:53.842 --> 00:27:55.246
That made me nuts.

00:27:55.246 --> 00:27:59.278
Luckily, saying you've got to return to the workshop, that made me nuts.

00:27:59.278 --> 00:28:00.119
Luckily I did not answer the door.

00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:08.760
I didn't make a sound, but that was like very scary that he would come and knock on my door yeah so he finally left, me gave up, he left yeah

00:28:09.040 --> 00:28:16.442
meanwhile I was still, you know, my mind was racing and and I was going through my whole life and how I was failing in my work.

00:28:16.442 --> 00:28:23.704
My work wasn't going right, I didn't have close friendships that I can depend on and I felt really alone and isolated.

00:28:23.704 --> 00:28:27.203
So Saturday went by and Sunday went by.

00:28:27.203 --> 00:28:28.461
My parents were away.

00:28:28.461 --> 00:28:32.741
They came back from a little vacation they took and Sunday night they called me in my apartment.

00:28:32.741 --> 00:28:38.616
They called me and I said everything was fine, because I always had that fear that they were going to lock me up.

00:28:38.616 --> 00:28:41.744
They were going to send me to an institution and lock me up.

00:28:41.744 --> 00:28:45.904
I always had that fear, which was irrational, but that was my fear.

00:28:45.904 --> 00:28:48.432
I didn't get any sleep that night.

00:28:48.634 --> 00:28:53.762
Monday came along Again, I was pacing back and forth in my apartment.

00:28:53.762 --> 00:29:03.683
I would sit, I had an art book that I held on to like the Bible, and I kind of looked at the art book, but that was about all I did, not eating.

00:29:03.683 --> 00:29:08.843
And that Tuesday I barged into my psychiatrist's office.

00:29:08.843 --> 00:29:17.976
Tuesday morning I said to him I couldn't communicate and I wasn't sleeping and he never asked me please come back at your designated time.

00:29:17.976 --> 00:29:22.044
And my designated time was Thursday evening.

00:29:22.044 --> 00:29:24.935
This was Tuesday morning my designated time was Thursday.

00:29:24.955 --> 00:29:29.824
At about five or six o'clock Wednesday came along.

00:29:29.824 --> 00:29:34.557
No sleep, because the sleep also, it compounded itself.

00:29:34.557 --> 00:29:39.969
The more you don't sleep, the more you can't sleep, the more manic you become.

00:29:39.969 --> 00:29:43.644
So I had a combination of depression and mania.

00:29:43.644 --> 00:29:47.903
And so Wednesday happened to be Halloween.

00:29:48.474 --> 00:29:51.162
That was the 31st of October 1984.

00:29:51.162 --> 00:29:56.463
The whole day I couldn't go out the front of my apartment.

00:29:56.463 --> 00:30:01.363
I was afraid to go out of my apartment, to get out of there because I thought my neighbors were going to kill me.

00:30:01.363 --> 00:30:04.657
This was going through my head, but they were going to persecute me.

00:30:04.657 --> 00:30:08.986
So what I did was night came.

00:30:08.986 --> 00:30:16.907
I think it was about maybe 11 o'clock at night, I decided that I was going to go out the window.

00:30:20.494 --> 00:30:22.156
11 o'clock at night, I decided that I was going to go out the window.

00:30:22.156 --> 00:30:23.058
I tied my bed sheets together, forming a rope.

00:30:23.058 --> 00:30:31.776
I tied one end of this composed rope and tied it around the steel post of my kitchen table.

00:30:31.776 --> 00:30:36.084
I took the rope and I went to the window.

00:30:36.084 --> 00:30:38.127
I took the screen off the window.

00:30:38.127 --> 00:30:42.521
I climbed out the window with the rope, thinking that I could rappel down the wall.

00:30:42.521 --> 00:30:47.157
The force of the gravity was nothing like you've ever felt.

00:30:47.157 --> 00:30:50.243
It was dead weight irons pulling you down.

00:30:51.164 --> 00:30:57.365
I couldn't get to the position to rappel For about five seconds or whatever it was.

00:30:57.365 --> 00:30:58.528
I planned my fall.

00:30:58.528 --> 00:31:00.980
I fell feet first.

00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:03.303
I rolled to my side so I didn't hit my head.

00:31:03.303 --> 00:31:06.584
I blacked out, colitosed.

00:31:06.584 --> 00:31:08.881
The neighbor called the police.

00:31:08.881 --> 00:31:09.563
They came.

00:31:09.563 --> 00:31:15.508
I woke up in the emergency room of a local hospital on a stretcher.

00:31:15.508 --> 00:31:20.444
Still in my head going through through it was the revolution going on.

00:31:20.444 --> 00:31:27.824
Whatever was going through my head, people were going to persecute me, they were going to kill me and I sat up like an idiot.

00:31:27.824 --> 00:31:31.344
I had broken my back and both my ankles.

00:31:31.944 --> 00:31:32.446
Oh jeez.

00:31:34.015 --> 00:31:50.710
After 12 hours surgery, a month in the critical care and a month in rehab in New York City, five months in a wheelchair, in April I got up and I walked, which was a miracle.

00:31:50.710 --> 00:31:54.338
During that period the doctors thought I was ever going to walk again, but I did.

00:31:54.338 --> 00:31:54.499
I did.

00:31:54.499 --> 00:31:55.941
I have metal in my I was ever going to walk again?

00:31:55.941 --> 00:31:58.904
But I did, I did.

00:31:58.904 --> 00:32:01.910
I have metal in my body and I have a Harrington rod in my back.

00:32:01.910 --> 00:32:09.686
And after that my life got better, believe it or not, but anyway, this whole thing happened in October of 1984.

00:32:10.434 --> 00:32:13.945
January of 1985, I found the right doctor.

00:32:13.945 --> 00:32:15.760
We'll call him George.

00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:21.587
George was a Quaker and a veteran of World War II.

00:32:21.587 --> 00:32:32.656
He, of course Quakers didn't believe in any alcohol consumption, any drug consumption, nothing like that Quaker, really.

00:32:32.656 --> 00:32:35.786
You know, he had a lot of common sense, a lot of common sense.

00:32:35.786 --> 00:32:37.528
He instructed me.

00:32:37.528 --> 00:32:38.137
He put a lot of common sense, a lot of common sense.

00:32:38.137 --> 00:32:42.083
He instructed me keep my life a little simpler, less stimulus.

00:32:42.083 --> 00:32:43.861
No, traveling to Europe alone.

00:32:43.861 --> 00:32:45.140
No, living on the third floor.

00:32:45.140 --> 00:32:53.801
You know, take a day at a time, don't put bunions in your head like imagining that I was going to be left abandoned.

00:32:53.801 --> 00:32:54.964
And put bunions in my head.

00:32:54.964 --> 00:32:56.536
He said don't put bunions in your head.

00:32:56.536 --> 00:32:57.777
Day said don't put bunions in your head.

00:32:57.797 --> 00:33:01.321
Stay at a time and he said take the load lightly.

00:33:01.321 --> 00:33:04.266
Those words were very heavy to me.

00:33:04.906 --> 00:33:06.690
It really meant a lot to me.

00:33:06.690 --> 00:33:19.535
He participated in my therapy, whereas Dr Samuels, he was more of a Freudian psychiatrist where you would have to talk free, associate, talk about your dreams.

00:33:19.535 --> 00:33:22.124
He never really offered any common sense.

00:33:22.124 --> 00:33:28.938
He never really participated verbally that much in the session, so I had nothing really to.

00:33:28.938 --> 00:33:36.087
I needed somebody to instill common sense in me Because up to that point I was doing everything and anything and all over the map.

00:33:36.107 --> 00:33:37.394
Too many jobs, too many friends, anything and all over the map.

00:33:37.394 --> 00:33:38.979
Too many jobs, too many friends too.

00:33:38.979 --> 00:33:43.490
Even boyfriends I had too many and just too much too much.

00:33:43.490 --> 00:33:58.090
Anyway, george wrote essays on grief management, vitamin management, eating management, relationship management, money management and so on.

00:33:58.090 --> 00:34:01.404
I don't remember all of them, but he wrote these essays and he would give them to me.

00:34:01.404 --> 00:34:04.042
You know, common sense essays.

00:34:04.042 --> 00:34:05.520
That was part of his thing.

00:34:05.976 --> 00:34:13.123
He included my parents in therapy once a month, whereas the Freudian Dr Samuels did not include my parents.

00:34:13.123 --> 00:34:21.204
His philosophy was that I had to be more independent and not dependent on my parents, so therefore we isolated my parents.

00:34:21.204 --> 00:34:24.336
George, on the other hand, included my parents.

00:34:24.336 --> 00:34:28.302
I developed a close friend.

00:34:28.302 --> 00:34:32.869
I had another close boyfriend and he came to therapy with me.

00:34:32.869 --> 00:34:42.041
So George was very inclusive common sense and very inclusive Low stimuli.

00:34:42.041 --> 00:34:44.822
He said watch your caffeine intake.

00:34:44.822 --> 00:34:45.664
Don't take it past.

00:34:45.664 --> 00:34:48.403
Don't have coffee past, let's say 3 or 5 o'clock.

00:34:48.403 --> 00:34:51.079
Stay away from any alcohol.

00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:52.342
Stay away from alcohol.

00:34:52.342 --> 00:34:54.628
Alcohol does not help you sleep.

00:34:54.628 --> 00:35:01.538
You can drink alcohol and get up and then you'd wake up at like four or three in the morning and could not go back to sleep again.

00:35:01.538 --> 00:35:02.822
That's what alcohol would do to you.

00:35:03.643 --> 00:35:06.077
Yeah, no, actually, that's actually what it does to me.

00:35:06.077 --> 00:35:09.125
It lets me get to sleep, but doesn't want me to stay asleep.

00:35:09.385 --> 00:35:11.476
No, not at all, Anyway.

00:35:11.476 --> 00:35:12.742
So time went on.

00:35:12.742 --> 00:35:17.235
I had a few good projects to do in the architecture.

00:35:17.235 --> 00:35:21.365
I renovated my father's office, 3,000 square foot.

00:35:21.365 --> 00:35:26.407
They got a new building in Greenpoint and I renovated the whole interior office.

00:35:26.407 --> 00:35:29.103
I renovated an interior design.

00:35:29.103 --> 00:35:35.380
Unfortunately, the boss of the firm only hired me for that, because nobody can do it, and then he fired me.

00:35:35.380 --> 00:35:37.364
So that was the end of that.

00:35:37.585 --> 00:35:38.447
That was the end of that.

00:35:38.447 --> 00:35:45.443
I worked part-time for my father, learning from the ground up the roofing business, but I didn't stay with that.

00:35:45.443 --> 00:35:49.586
But I was moderately successful even though I had been through all of this.

00:35:49.586 --> 00:35:50.905
I was moderately successful even though I had been through all of this.

00:35:50.905 --> 00:36:01.056
I was moderately successful in these little projects I did In 1987, I found Mr Right, my husband.

00:36:01.056 --> 00:36:03.320
I found him.

00:36:04.742 --> 00:36:05.463
Where did you find him?

00:36:06.003 --> 00:36:07.005
Through a dating service.

00:36:07.005 --> 00:36:09.849
Oh, but I found him.

00:36:09.849 --> 00:36:13.565
I was very discouraged with the dating service because the gentlemen were.

00:36:13.565 --> 00:36:18.400
They just were not interested in being serious and I gave up.

00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:32.405
And then I got a phone call about three months later and Mr Wright was on the phone and we clicked and he was going to be doing a residency in psychiatry.

00:36:32.405 --> 00:36:35.815
And at that point I said you know, I want to be a social worker.

00:36:35.815 --> 00:36:38.043
Because I've been through so much, I think I can help.

00:36:38.043 --> 00:36:41.264
I've been on the other side of the coin there, I can help people.

00:36:41.264 --> 00:36:47.501
But then I said to myself it would take too much education, it would take another four or five years.

00:36:47.501 --> 00:36:49.844
Social work is a long process.

00:36:49.844 --> 00:36:53.920
Even psychologists forget it's a long process.

00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.264
So I said I'm not going to do that.

00:36:58.264 --> 00:37:02.280
And then within four months we got married.

00:37:03.344 --> 00:37:03.804
Wow.

00:37:04.456 --> 00:37:06.804
And we've been together now for 37 years.

00:37:07.635 --> 00:37:08.360
That's fantastic.

00:37:08.514 --> 00:37:09.778
June 21st will for 37 years.

00:37:09.778 --> 00:37:10.440
That's fantastic.

00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:15.356
June 21st will be 37 years and we have two children.

00:37:15.356 --> 00:37:21.215
I had children after my accident, but it was in 1988, through the suggestion of George.

00:37:21.215 --> 00:37:22.157
He says you know what?

00:37:22.157 --> 00:37:27.427
Why don't you take up painting, take up fine art?

00:37:27.427 --> 00:37:32.657
And that's what I did take up fine art, and that's what I did.

00:37:32.657 --> 00:37:58.079
I switched professions and I got into painting and the discipline that I acquired from architecture I applied to my painting and I was able to work on each painting and develop each painting very sophisticated painting, very sophisticated surreal allegories, narratives with people and animals and context, and very engaged in these paintings.

00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:00.545
And I've been doing that ever since.

00:38:00.545 --> 00:38:07.954
And gradually my episodes became more spaced apart.

00:38:07.954 --> 00:38:19.541
I had one in 1987 and then four or five, six years later I had another one and then another four or five years later I had another episode.

00:38:19.541 --> 00:38:22.965
I had about four episodes with my husband.

00:38:22.965 --> 00:38:29.146
My husband lived through them, which makes my husband an excellent psychiatrist because he's lived through it.

00:38:29.146 --> 00:38:32.976
Many psychiatrists have not lived through episodes.

00:38:33.277 --> 00:38:54.949
They don't know what it is to live through it, so he's become a very, very astute doctor, watching caffeine, taking care of yourself a little bit more, getting into a profession that really kind of was low stimuli but specific enough for you to concentrate.

00:38:54.949 --> 00:38:57.851
Did the subsequent episodes?

00:38:57.851 --> 00:39:01.813
Did they still end up like lasting five weeks for you to get back?

00:39:01.833 --> 00:39:15.606
Oh yeah, oh yeah, because you know, I still had that pattern of psychosis in my head that developed ever since the PCP, even though I managed to hold my own for like three or four or five years.

00:39:15.606 --> 00:39:23.648
But with the pressures of the kids and the pressures in the school, the public schools, it was immense for me, it was a lot.

00:39:23.648 --> 00:39:27.365
And also the pressure of getting out there with my art.

00:39:27.365 --> 00:39:28.538
You know, I just I felt again.

00:39:28.538 --> 00:39:36.402
I felt there with my art Again, I felt isolated with my art, but those pressures got to me and I had four major leak right there.

00:39:36.402 --> 00:39:42.659
But in about 1999, when I was in the hospital, I was hospitalized.

00:39:42.659 --> 00:39:51.224
The doctor there gave me this medication, this antipsychotic medication, which proved to be moderately effective.

00:39:52.407 --> 00:39:52.708
Yeah.

00:39:53.114 --> 00:39:55.864
So in 1999, I had this medication.

00:39:55.864 --> 00:40:01.146
I was probably on the wrong dosage because I still had another breakdown.

00:40:01.146 --> 00:40:04.519
I had a breakdown, I think, in 19,.

00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:10.603
I had ripples of breakdowns which I was not hospitalized, but there were little ripples along the way.

00:40:11.856 --> 00:40:15.623
And then I think I had one before 2010,.

00:40:15.623 --> 00:40:30.125
But in 2010, I had another breakdown and in the hospital I was talking to the head psychiatrist and I was going I can't eat the food, I think it's poisoned.

00:40:30.125 --> 00:40:32.998
I think they're going after me.

00:40:32.998 --> 00:40:44.505
I was relating my psychosis to her and she says I'm putting you on 20 milligrams of this medication olanzapine, zyprexa no ands, ifs or buts.

00:40:44.505 --> 00:40:45.827
You're going on 20 milligrams.

00:40:45.827 --> 00:40:47.137
I used to take five milligrams.

00:40:47.137 --> 00:40:48.780
You're taking 20 milligrams.

00:40:48.780 --> 00:40:52.956
Well, since 2010, I've been break free.

00:40:52.956 --> 00:40:55.240
Wow, 2010?

00:40:55.240 --> 00:40:57.143
2010.

00:40:57.143 --> 00:40:59.527
Yeah, and now, in 2010, I started writing.

00:40:59.527 --> 00:41:04.731
Well, actually, in 1995, I started writing poems to my paintings, so each of my paintings have poems.

00:41:05.313 --> 00:41:07.237
2010, I started writing.

00:41:07.237 --> 00:41:30.943
I started writing my memoir, and that really helped me too, because I was able to look at all the patterns that I fell into the pattern, the history of the pattern, the pattern that had to be broken, the pattern of insomnia, because the insomnia was like unbearable, unbearable, but I managed.

00:41:30.943 --> 00:41:33.969
With the medication and writing about all of this.

00:41:33.969 --> 00:41:40.925
I managed to put myself in a bubble, look at myself from afar and see the pattern that I was in.

00:41:40.925 --> 00:41:47.186
And George, like George, didn't survive until 2010,.

00:41:49.059 --> 00:41:57.206
But back, when I was seeing him, he would say pay attention to your symptoms, know when the symptoms are coming on.

00:41:57.206 --> 00:42:10.668
That's what I learned Knowing symptoms, when they would come on, I would increase my medication and I would make sure that I would verbalize and communicate to my husband, to a friend, to somebody I felt close to.

00:42:10.668 --> 00:42:14.880
I would communicate my paranoia To my father especially.

00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:23.184
I would talk it through and I would get over that ripple and then, eventually, the pattern just went away.

00:42:23.184 --> 00:42:27.057
I overcame the pattern, that pattern.

00:42:27.057 --> 00:42:36.139
I overcame it, I recognized it and today my memoir was published in 2020.

00:42:38.304 --> 00:42:39.938
And that was the.

00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:47.706
Journey of the Self Memoir of an Artist, and that memoir covers 1977 to 1987.

00:42:48.315 --> 00:42:49.059
What happened after that?

00:42:49.059 --> 00:42:52.280
Wow, that's an amazing story.

00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:59.009
One thing I noticed that you were telling me about that you would go days and days and days without sleep and that that was part of your pattern.

00:42:59.009 --> 00:43:03.101
And it's so funny now because you know what they would tell you to do.

00:43:03.101 --> 00:43:08.108
Today, if you're going through all that and you're going through like days of not sleeping.

00:43:08.849 --> 00:43:09.429
What would they do?

00:43:09.429 --> 00:43:15.599
I don't know what they would do they would tell you to take some marijuana.

00:43:15.619 --> 00:43:22.240
And look, not everybody reacts to marijuana the way I did I know, I know, but I'm just saying that that's what they would have said.

00:43:22.240 --> 00:43:22.963
I thought about that.

00:43:22.963 --> 00:43:27.980
I was like oh my god, you know this poor lady, but you got through it you know what I mean.

00:43:28.001 --> 00:43:28.442
I, I got through it.

00:43:28.442 --> 00:43:31.389
It took 33 years till 2010,.

00:43:31.389 --> 00:43:33.414
77 to 2010.

00:43:33.414 --> 00:43:35.460
Took that much time.

00:43:36.382 --> 00:43:47.018
Wow, and really you know it's a case study because, like a lot of people and I was one of them for a while until I had talked to some people that actually gone through it was you know this whole the.

00:43:47.018 --> 00:43:54.342
We have this, the trend, stress management and you know you're, if you're stressed, you need to do these and that and everything else.

00:43:54.342 --> 00:43:59.621
And I was for a long time I was like, come on, just get over it.

00:43:59.621 --> 00:44:01.143
I was brought up on the.

00:44:01.143 --> 00:44:04.896
You know, if it's no pain, no gain.

00:44:04.896 --> 00:44:05.677
You know what I mean.

00:44:05.677 --> 00:44:09.262
That you want to change something, just change it, just get it done.

00:44:09.262 --> 00:44:13.389
You know, find your way through, get it done, change and go and move on with your life.

00:44:13.389 --> 00:44:20.882
You know, this whole stress thing for me growing up was a, it was a cop out, it was you only were stressed if you were a wimp.

00:44:21.394 --> 00:44:24.202
The understanding of what an individual goes through.

00:44:24.985 --> 00:44:31.869
Exactly, and you brought in the case study for how stress can actually cause harm to somebody.

00:44:32.735 --> 00:44:34.802
And if it goes unchecked, that's the whole thing.

00:44:34.802 --> 00:44:35.623
It went unchecked.

00:44:35.623 --> 00:44:41.788
If I had found George in the beginning I think I would have been a lot better.

00:44:41.788 --> 00:44:45.945
He saw the pattern that developed since that PCP.

00:44:47.474 --> 00:44:49.440
Yeah, that's a good thing to think about.

00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:50.806
Are those patterns?

00:44:50.855 --> 00:44:52.161
It's a pattern you drop into.

00:44:52.161 --> 00:44:54.601
You know we're creatures of habit.

00:44:54.601 --> 00:44:57.903
Yes, and sleep is also a habit.

00:44:57.903 --> 00:45:06.059
If you fall out of sleep, you could be without sleep or you could wake up at the same time, like three o'clock every morning, and not go back to sleep again.

00:45:06.762 --> 00:45:06.983
Right.

00:45:07.525 --> 00:45:08.347
How do you do that?

00:45:08.347 --> 00:45:10.193
How do you do that?

00:45:10.193 --> 00:45:10.855
How do you do that?

00:45:10.855 --> 00:45:12.322
How do you break that pattern?

00:45:13.775 --> 00:45:14.860
Well, I think you're right about it.

00:45:15.894 --> 00:45:17.099
First you have to notice it.

00:45:17.099 --> 00:45:19.800
Admit to yourself, that's the other thing he said.

00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:21.942
Learn your limitations.

00:45:21.942 --> 00:45:28.266
I was going way beyond my limitation With school and friends and boyfriends Going to Europe.

00:45:28.266 --> 00:45:30.943
It was way beyond my limitation.

00:45:30.943 --> 00:45:37.518
I should have taken it a little slower, much slower, and with him.

00:45:37.518 --> 00:45:41.400
Had I found him immediately, I think my life would have been a little bit different.

00:45:42.965 --> 00:46:05.414
You know so, to somebody that might be I don't want to let's not even go as far as having a nervous breakdown but to somebody that finds themselves stressed and that they tend to think outside of the box, you know, like maybe it wouldn't be as far as an apocalyptic world that you went through, but maybe something like just betrayal.

00:46:05.715 --> 00:46:07.903
A feeling, a horrible feeling.

00:46:08.094 --> 00:46:08.215
Right.

00:46:08.215 --> 00:46:12.996
So when people start to realize that that's happening more and more, what would be the first step you would think?

00:46:12.996 --> 00:46:13.519
To tell them.

00:46:15.476 --> 00:46:25.918
I would say, first of all, talk to somebody, Whether it's a therapist, a social worker, a religious person or somebody, and say, look, I feel this way.

00:46:25.918 --> 00:46:32.509
Then they would say well, do you feel this way all the time or does it happen at certain times?

00:46:32.509 --> 00:46:34.599
I would say to talk to somebody.

00:46:35.121 --> 00:46:35.262
Okay.

00:46:36.054 --> 00:46:37.137
Because that's also.

00:46:37.137 --> 00:46:40.045
You could feel betrayed and you're not betrayed.

00:46:40.045 --> 00:46:43.001
But that could be the pattern in your head, that could be the habit in your head.

00:46:43.001 --> 00:46:54.679
If the person says the wrong thing and then you exaggerate it to a point where it's not true, they're not really portraying you, but you're in your insecurity.

00:46:54.679 --> 00:47:00.577
You feel that you are portrayed because maybe you have a low self-esteem.

00:47:00.577 --> 00:47:04.170
There might be a cause to that portrayal, feeling that portrayal.

00:47:04.512 --> 00:47:20.416
There's a cause there inside of you, talking to someone, you might be able to identify that yourself Absolutely and say something professional, yeah, and you're also a case study, for you know, for medication, you know a lot of people think the same thing you got to take.

00:47:20.416 --> 00:47:25.653
If you got to take medicine, you're, you know, you're weak, you know medicine.

00:47:27.097 --> 00:47:31.045
I know somebody who has that issue because the spouse doesn't believe in it.

00:47:31.606 --> 00:47:31.847
Right.

00:47:32.347 --> 00:47:32.949
Medication.

00:47:32.949 --> 00:47:37.992
If it doesn't work for the first three months, try another one or try a different dosage.

00:47:38.673 --> 00:47:38.835
Right.

00:47:39.295 --> 00:47:40.577
And with a therapist.

00:47:40.577 --> 00:47:46.409
If the therapist is not effective for you over the three to five months, find another therapist.

00:47:46.409 --> 00:47:49.396
Don't wait seven years, find another therapist.

00:47:49.396 --> 00:47:50.577
Don't wait seven years, find another therapist.

00:47:50.577 --> 00:47:55.445
It's not written in stone that you go with this particular therapist or this particular medication.

00:47:55.445 --> 00:48:13.239
You have to experiment with yourself therapist personally, it's the methodology.

00:48:13.260 --> 00:48:23.668
Like you said, your first therapist was more of a Freudian methodology and it sounds like your second I mean George was more in the Carl Jung type of way, where it was more about feelings and what you were going through and simplifying things.

00:48:24.056 --> 00:48:24.376
Absolutely.

00:48:24.376 --> 00:48:28.682
And also we analyzed dreams and he wrote down all my dreams.

00:48:28.682 --> 00:48:32.449
He kept a real record of my dreams and everything.

00:48:32.449 --> 00:48:37.786
He even took pictures of my parents and me and he took pictures of my kids.

00:48:37.786 --> 00:48:39.501
He had a whole history in his document.

00:48:43.242 --> 00:48:47.255
So I'm not sure if that's like a normal thing, but I would just be thinking that it's a methodology.

00:48:47.255 --> 00:48:53.547
You were with your first therapist for a long time before you finally moved over to somebody else, and I think it's more like that.

00:48:53.547 --> 00:48:57.414
It's that methodology Freudian, you know, freudian psychology still exists today.

00:48:57.414 --> 00:48:59.902
People still use it and it does work for some people.

00:48:59.902 --> 00:49:01.045
It did not work for you.

00:49:01.775 --> 00:49:02.615
No, it didn't work for me.

00:49:02.615 --> 00:49:04.137
I needed common sense.

00:49:04.137 --> 00:49:10.748
I needed somebody to analyze the situation and say, hey look, do it a different way.

00:49:11.768 --> 00:49:12.170
Yeah.

00:49:12.230 --> 00:49:12.630
Simpler.

00:49:12.630 --> 00:49:16.922
You know, build in architecture Don't just go from job to job.

00:49:16.922 --> 00:49:28.887
I didn't have a mentor in the architecture field which would have helped, because at the time I was in it it was very male-dominated and there were very few women in the field, which would have helped also.

00:49:28.887 --> 00:49:33.065
So I needed somebody to really instill common sense.

00:49:34.695 --> 00:49:49.206
So you also mentioned that when you started to recognize the symptoms and then you would tell somebody and that would help you kind of get through it, you know somebody would at least know that you're going to end up going through it, through it.

00:49:49.206 --> 00:49:51.875
You know somebody would at least know that you're going to end up going through it.

00:49:51.875 --> 00:50:00.215
Did you find, besides talking about it, did you find an activity for you that might have helped quell it at a certain point, that is, your painting or your writing or anything like that?

00:50:00.614 --> 00:50:01.900
I came up, I couldn't even paint.

00:50:01.900 --> 00:50:09.159
When I went through my episode and paint, I think talking about it, I would often call my father.

00:50:09.159 --> 00:50:15.050
My father was really there and I would just talk about what I was paranoid about.

00:50:15.050 --> 00:50:23.623
It didn't make sense, but I would talk it through, so to speak, and see the painting didn't do that for me.

00:50:23.623 --> 00:50:31.768
The painting I was able to concentrate on my painting and it brought me through most of the periods.

00:50:32.449 --> 00:50:32.690
Okay.

00:50:32.954 --> 00:50:41.130
And since 2010, the painting has really been my focus and my focus point.

00:50:41.130 --> 00:50:43.603
If I'm going through something, I would write a lot.

00:50:43.603 --> 00:50:48.375
I would write all of what's making me nervous about my son or about my daughter.

00:50:48.375 --> 00:50:49.981
I would write the whole thing down.

00:50:49.981 --> 00:50:53.161
That's actually a lot of help.

00:50:53.161 --> 00:50:59.125
Not my book, not writing my book, but just keeping a diary and what I can do to help my kid.

00:50:59.954 --> 00:51:06.967
And that was going to be my next question Did you find anything with your kid?

00:51:06.967 --> 00:51:09.943
Did your kids have any kind of symptoms or anything that might have?

00:51:10.344 --> 00:51:13.820
They had their own, my son had his issues, my daughter had her issues.

00:51:13.820 --> 00:51:18.063
So okay, but nothing, nothing compared, nothing like me.

00:51:18.804 --> 00:51:19.085
Right.

00:51:19.085 --> 00:51:35.201
So not as you know, it might not come as fruition, and I'm thinking, maybe, you know, maybe it wasn't the PCP itself, it was, that was the, that was what kind of like let the kind of what opened up the barn, darts.

00:51:35.240 --> 00:51:37.405
It was also with the combination of the marijuana.

00:51:37.405 --> 00:51:52.297
Yeah, I may have had a predisposition a little bit, but that just brought it all out and now you're published, you've got several paintings, and the paintings is kind of like surrealism.

00:51:52.878 --> 00:51:54.402
Yeah, um is what I would call them.

00:51:54.402 --> 00:51:57.978
Yeah, you can see what the objects are, but they're shaped in in.

00:51:57.978 --> 00:52:06.217
The colors are vibrant, I'd almost, it almost looks like van gogh to me, especially your backgrounds.

00:52:06.217 --> 00:52:10.014
So, for all you out lovers out there, you definitely need to take a look.

00:52:10.014 --> 00:52:16.998
And speaking of that taking a look, let's to either get ahold of Ruth, check out her book, look at some of her paintings.

00:52:16.998 --> 00:52:28.976
You just have to go to Ruth Ponierski and I will have that in the show notes along with a straight link her book Journey to Self Memories of a Memoir of an Artist.

00:52:28.976 --> 00:52:33.786
So we'll have that linked for you and then you know, if you want you could you talk to Ruth.

00:52:33.786 --> 00:52:35.976
Ruth, are you active on social media at all?

00:52:37.398 --> 00:52:39.402
You can message me from my website.

00:52:39.402 --> 00:52:40.364
You can message me.

00:52:40.985 --> 00:52:41.224
Okay.

00:52:41.806 --> 00:52:42.047
Yeah.

00:52:42.286 --> 00:52:43.710
Great Perfect.

00:52:43.710 --> 00:52:49.266
She's also got another website that is really kind of cool and there's a link in her original website that does that.

00:52:49.266 --> 00:52:50.248
So but you'll see it.

00:52:50.248 --> 00:52:51.170
It's right there at the top.

00:52:51.170 --> 00:52:53.918
It says see my other site, and they're both very well done.

00:52:53.918 --> 00:52:58.115
You get a chance to kind of read her poems and you get to see where the book is.

00:52:58.115 --> 00:53:00.601
You get to look at some of her paintings and it's really cool.

00:53:00.601 --> 00:53:02.527
So definitely check that out.

00:53:02.527 --> 00:53:07.059
And if you'd like to have a chat with her, then you can get to her website as well.

00:53:07.059 --> 00:53:09.362
So, ruth, and you can get to her website as well.

00:53:09.362 --> 00:53:09.963
So, ruth, thank you.

00:53:09.963 --> 00:53:11.947
Thank you so much for joining me.

00:53:11.947 --> 00:53:21.884
This, I think, is very important that we get this out for the people that might be dealing with this and don't even realize it that hey, talk to someone first.

00:53:21.884 --> 00:53:23.440
You find a repeating pattern.

00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:32.021
You definitely need to go see a professional at that point and that's where you're going to take your step towards getting through it and getting to the next big step in your life.

00:53:33.445 --> 00:53:34.166
Absolutely.

00:53:34.166 --> 00:53:35.548
Thank you for having me.

00:53:35.914 --> 00:53:36.900
Yeah, thank you for joining me.

00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:37.744
I really appreciate it.

00:53:37.744 --> 00:53:38.650
All right, everybody.

00:53:38.650 --> 00:53:40.818
Thank you for joining Life Changing Challengers.

00:53:40.818 --> 00:53:48.545
Check out this episode, all our other episodes, if you want to go ahead and leave a review and, you know, like and subscribe and all that cool stuff.

00:53:48.545 --> 00:53:56.065
I appreciate it and until next time, we'll see you in the next one.