The Magic of Connection – Derek Selinger’s Box of Wonders

Brad Minus: [00:00:00] And welcome back to another episode of Life Changing Challengers. I have with me the amazing Derek Stellinger. How do you exactly do you, do you pronounce your last name? 

Derek Selinger: Yeah, in North America, it's Selinger, hard G.

Brad Minus: All right. Well, there you go, ladies and gentlemen, this is Derek Selinger. The amazing Derek Selinger. He is a immersive experience expert and a master magician. He has a wonderful, amazing TEDx talk out there of which he provides some magic with his message. And we're going to get more into that a little bit later.

But anyway, Derek, how are you doing today? 

Derek Selinger: I'm great. Thanks for having me on today. 

Brad Minus: Oh, no. The pleasure is all mine. So Derek, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood where you grew up? Maybe what's the compliment of your family was and what was it like to be Derek as a kid? 

Derek Selinger: Sure. Yeah, that's a great question.

I grew up in small town, [00:01:00] Alberta and Canada, a, a small prairie town, you know, my dad worked for the, the government and, It was a really lovely childhood, a very simple childhood, which is often the way growing up in smaller communities.

In Canada, the rule of the land is hockey. Right. Everybody plays hockey and I didn't play hockey. I didn't, my, my parents made me a deal. They said, Derek, you could play hockey or you could do everything else. You got to choose one or the other because hockey is so involved, up here. So I, I was a really involved kid in a lot of different things.

I was in Music and drama, different clubs at school. I played other sports just, you know, it was a really a great childhood. Now that being said, like many people I had, I had challenges growing up. And, one of them was, I, I have a stress induced dyslexia, [00:02:00] which is actually pretty challenging for a magician that has to keep things in order.

I had a speech impediment. I was really embarrassed about the way I talked. I went to speech, pathology, classes with a professional to work on forming words properly. And that got me a lot of teasing when I was really young. So, I actually lacked a lot of confidence when I was young.

And if you would have told me Back then, that I was going to be a professional on stage speaking to millions of people, I would have thought you were crazy because I couldn't even get out a sentence. Oh wow. But, yeah, so that's kind of like a nutshell of what it was like, and I won't spoil the spoiler, my origin story yet.

I'll just, pause there for a second. 

Brad Minus: No, so what age did you decide, or your parents, enroll you in speech therapy? What age group was that? 

I would have been in grade two, 

right 

Derek Selinger: Yeah, I was very young, very young. You know, just, elementary [00:03:00] years were really difficult. And I didn't really start finding my legs until, until middle school and getting a bit older. 

Brad Minus: Okay. So it was early on and was that something that, was fixable at that point or was this something that was ongoing through high school?

Derek Selinger: Yeah, it improved a great deal. I still have to be intentional with my pronunciations. The dyslexia thing is real, particularly when I get overtired or, really stressed. I performed on Penn and Teller. Fool us on that television show and I did a death defying stunt there that keeping things in order was really important.

Brad Minus: Oh my god. 

Derek Selinger: So, it's a bit of a work challenge that I have to manage but, I've been fortunate to have help when I was young and then, learned how to manage it. 

Brad Minus: Okay, I'm sorry, but you know, I love that show and so I need to just veer to the right for just a second.

So Penn and Teller are [00:04:00] fantastic and I love them, but any chance, did you got to meet Allison Hannigan? 

Derek Selinger: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, she, she is 

Brad Minus: cool as she is really, really nice and cool as she seems, or is she kind of like the star 

Derek Selinger: no, she was, she was super kind. She actually so I, I performed an illusion called the deadly gallows, which were five working hangman's nooses on stage.

And it was basically Russian roulette with these gallows. And she flipped the switch. Her reaction was great. And she was genuinely like nervous about it and really sweet. I, I loved, I loved, being on stage. She was a big part of my piece. 

Brad Minus: I mean, I'm not like she's.

She's not quite A list, but I've loved her since American Pie. Sure, of course. I loved her characters, I loved her in, buffy the Vampire Slayer. And those small parts that she's got. Whenever she's on something, I'm like really excited about it. And I think it's just because I kind of grew with her.

Yeah. So I had to [00:05:00] ask. I'm sorry, I had to ask. Yeah, no, that's cool. 

Derek Selinger: That's cool. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, because, you know, obviously Teller doesn't seem like he's all that menacing, but Penn sure does. Is he as big in real life too? 

Derek Selinger: Teller seems like such a small guy next to Penn.

He's not. Teller is six foot tall, maybe a bit taller. So, that tells you how big Penn is, right? And Teller has a really deep voice. They came backstage after my piece and talked to me Teller's such a gentleman and so is Penn. Of course, Penn's the very talkative one, but they were great guys.

It was great to be on that show. 

Brad Minus: All right. Yeah, that's cool. But I had to ask because I watched that show. And I probably saw yours and I can't, 

make the connection. But now I'm gonna have to go back and look for Sure. So you don't play hockey and you're in Canada. We've gotten this point where you're starting to get past your speech impediment. You're in middle school and his middle school where you started drama and music and stuff.

Derek Selinger: Yeah. My mom, put us into musical theater and all these other things, [00:06:00] which I'm thankful for now because it really did develop a lot of my skills and pushed me through some of these barriers. When I was eight, my mom sat me down at the table and, she could tell I was having a tough go.

She sat me down and poured me a glass of milk and she said, son, you're special. Now that's something all moms say to their kid, right? She said, no, no, let me explain to you something. She said, when I was pregnant with you, I was electrocuted.

So she was shocked. She didn't die. So the technical term is shock, but 220 volts of live electricity grabbed her and she was showing the lady how to hook up the stove and grab the live, the live wires back there. Blew her across the room and she was rushed to the hospital and in the hospital they said, okay, we think you're going to be okay.

We're going to keep here to stabilize you, but we really don't know about your baby to which she was like, what? That was the second shock in the same day. And, they said, yeah, you're pregnant. [00:07:00] So there's that. We don't think the fetus will survive. And if it does, it will most certainly not be normal, which is true.

That part is true. They gave her different options. They considered terminating the pregnancy, which I'm glad she didn't. She carried me to term, and I was born, and I seemed to have all my digits, and everything, and it looked to be normal.

They took me to an intelligence test at like 10 months or 11 months old, and I scored 0%. I scored 0%. My theory is I had super intelligence, because I just stared at the nurse, knowing that they would bring me the raisins anyway, or whatever the heck they were doing. She told me this story.

And it had a really profound impact on my, on my mind. Two distinct thoughts. The first is that I have superpowers. Yes, that's what I would have thought too! I mean, this is like the, I was, in all the comics I've been reading, this is the thing, [00:08:00] right? This is the thing that happens. So, I, for real, spent that night trying to jump off my bed to fly to, I've got to have something.

Till my dad yelled at me to knock it off. And the second thought I had at eight is that my life is a gift. That the fact that I'm alive today is miraculous. That the fact that I'm even breathing here today is amazing. And that's a really strong idea for an eight year old.

I think it's a strong idea for any of us at any age. And in fact, I believe that statement to be true for us all, even if you have not been electrocuted in vitro. Your life's a gift. The fact that you're alive today is incredible. Amazing. You've got more to give you got, you've got something to do.

This experience became my driving experience and thought for all of my life. 

Brad Minus: And I think that's profound. Yeah. So maybe you did have super intelligence. Yeah. Maybe it aged your brain just enough for you to understand that.

But yeah, at eight, I was just thinking, you know, when am I gonna get [00:09:00] my next class of chocolate milk? Right. So I, yeah. That's profound. And, I think you're absolutely right.

And I think it's something that's completely taken for granted. And I think with the short time that we've got what how people spend their time and thinking that, you know, thinking that they got tomorrow, they got tomorrow, they got tomorrow, and I'm guilty of it, too. But, you know, we really, really don't.

But if you're not doing things for others or for yourself or for your family, it feels like you're wasting time, which that's just one way to think about it. And it's not a very optimistic way of thinking about it, but I digress. So what steps did you take after that, that you used with this new profound idea of life being a gift?

Derek Selinger: Yeah. Like you noted, it's a pretty strange thought for a young kid, and I'm not unique in that I have worked in my career with, kids that have been going through extreme sicknesses and cancers as part of my, work as a magician, and they often have this [00:10:00] same type of thought so I think it's something to do with this realization of life being fragile that causes your brain to kind of go into this zone.

So, I, two things kind of happened. One is I became a pretty serious kid. And, That caused some uncomfortability for teachers and others, because they were, you know, people would worry about me, because I would be very, you know, I would ponder things. I would think about them, even at a young age, quite seriously.

And it served me well, but it definitely wasn't the most comfortable thing as a young kid, because I would see things I thought were stupid. And they weren't. They were just part of being. young and silly. 

The big thing that happened is I began a process of looking for meaning in what I'm going to do.

Like, I had this sense of like, I've got to do something with my life. I don't know what that is. And so I began [00:11:00] this process of, Trying to figure out what is it that I can do to make the most out of this gift I've been given you know, it in one sense was very empowering and the other sense it was a little bit debilitating because when you have that sense of responsibility on your shoulder as young age, like I said, you get a little bit too serious.

And I think that I was guilty of that at times of, really looking for maximum impact in everything. And, it was much later I began to realize that, that walking hand in hand with meaning and significance is joy. It's play. It's being in the moment. You know, it's the combination of the two that makes magic.

But at a young age, I was really intentional about, what is it? I'm going to do like what's the thing and I went down different paths, trying to discover that. 

Brad Minus: Wow. So at what point did you discover magic? 

Derek Selinger: Yeah. Well, I mean, magic, it'd be [00:12:00] right about that time. That I discovered, I discovered magic like in a Boy Scout manual, I learned like a rope trick or something and it seemed to impress my family and so it became one of the things I did.

I never, in a million years, thought I could ever be a professional magician. That's crazy talk. Like, again, you gotta remember, I'm in small town. Canada, right? We got no magicians in my town. I never met a magician until I was an adult. The only magic that we had was on TV. You know, you watch the special and, you know, you watch these specials and it.

Bigger than life. And it's, you never think that's going to be me. So it was just a hobby. It was, it was a way for me to, to do something cool, break the ice with girls, you know? So they, they talked to me and, it was just something I kind of did alongside of all the other things I did all the way up until I got to university.

[00:13:00] And in university I met another magician. First one I really met actually, and he was very good. And He was doing stuff that was blowing my mind, so I went up to him and I said, Blair, how do you, how do you do this? Like, I want to learn. I love this. This is so cool. And, and he told me books. You, you, you start buying books.

And, that's what I started to do is, get some really good magic books and started to learn technique and, began to develop it as an actual craft and hobby. 

Brad Minus: Did you end up getting mentored by somebody later on? 

Derek Selinger: Man, you're hitting on all the hits here, my friend, you could tell you've done podcasts before, like, you're asking all the great questions. Yeah, exactly right. Self taught, and I think this is a common practice in many things, many endeavors, in our lives, is we start because we have a passion and interest.

And we teach ourselves, and especially now with YouTube, you could go on YouTube and learn things and just about anything you ever wanted to learn, but you get to a point [00:14:00] where you need help, you need individual care, you need somebody to look into what you're doing and help you, not just understand how to do something, but what you need to do next, right?

Because we all develop, Any particular skill, any particular art at a different rate than others. What happened to me was actually, you know, another miracle in my life. I went to a show. A Vegas headliner was on tour and he was performing in a city near me. Now I say near me, but you gotta remember I was in Canada.

Okay, so near me is like eight and a half hours away. 

Derek Selinger: So I drove to the city to take in a show and the next day he was having a masterclass or a teaching session for magicians. Magicians share ideas. And so they'll have these things and it costs a bit of money.

Back then it was a hundred bucks and I didn't have a hundred bucks, but I found it and I went to this teaching session the next day. I was [00:15:00] blown away the night before by a show. I went to this teaching session and I was going to squeeze every drop out of this. So I got there early and I walked into the room and there was a long boardroom table.

So I put the most comfortable chair at the head of the table. And I sat next to it and I told everybody else that's where Jeff is going to sit. No, you can't sit there. That's where Jeff is going to sit. No, sorry. That's where Jeff is going to sit. And sure enough, that's where he came in and he sat. And he was a couple minutes early as well.

So he sat there and he's kind of looking around the table and making conversation. And he asked me, what kind of magic do you perform? And I said, Oh, I just, you know, I do a couple of card tricks. And he said, well, show me something. 

Brad Minus: This 

Derek Selinger: master, oh, but I did, nervously shaking, I go through a classic of card magic called Triumph, invented by another Canadian actually, and I perform this piece of magic, and he said, really good.

And he gave me a couple pointers, and he told me a couple [00:16:00] things, and then he went on and taught his class. And at the end of the class, he turned to me, and he said, I think you need to come to Las Vegas to study with me. And I was like, What? He's like, Yeah, I think you should come to Las Vegas. Here's my direct line.

Give me a call. You need to come and work. I was blown away after I left, that feels really nice to have someone recognize that maybe you might have something, I talked to a friend of mine. I said, could you believe this? And they said, when you go and I said, go, are you crazy?

I'm not good enough yet. I'm nowhere near good enough to go. And my friend said to me, You're an idiot. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. The offer is, it's there for you now. If you do not go, you will regret it the rest of your life.

And that was exactly what I needed to hear. So, I found the money to go to Las Vegas. And I went down and I started to sit at the feet of masters. [00:17:00] Absolute masters. Because Jeff McBride wasn't the only one. feeding into my life, and also Eugene Berger, and then Lance Burton came by, and Mack King came by, and Jonathan Pendragon came by, and all these, legends of magic would come by his house as we'd work on magic.

And that's where things started to really take off for me, because I began to see the art form as, high art. You know, a lot of times you think of magician, you think of, Bobo the clown with his nose and he's for kids and that's it. But there is a group of people that take the art form extremely seriously as a method of communicating important ideas.

And I found that with these people and they helped me really develop my craft. 

Brad Minus: That has got to be an amazing community. You know what I mean? Because, you know, obviously there's a lot of competition in that. And as the competition grows, [00:18:00] then, you know, you hear about it. I'm not so sure about the rumors or everything, but it sounds like that there was a community and you were okay sharing your secrets.

Which are not secrets, their techniques, and that just making each other better, it's just kind of in my community as well in the endurance community, because most of the time we are not, you know, it's only the top 5 percent that are actually competing at a level that get paid, that, take home trophies that, you know, that the rest of us are just trying to To beat the last time, you know, in a certain race in a certain distance.

So I imagine it's somewhere around the same thing. Maybe you could tell me a little bit more about that. There's a certain point where, okay, I've mastered this technique.

Now I can take that one step higher. And that's your goal is, is to keep getting better with better and, and higher and higher techniques am I getting about the gist of it? 

Derek Selinger: Yeah, I think so. I think, you've explained it well. There are [00:19:00] secrets that are protected.

For example, I have a piece that I've developed that I performed for Jeff, when I performed at a show in Vegas. I haven't told him how I do it yet. He doesn't know exactly how I do it but he hasn't even asked me because he knows it's my secret by all means, I will share it with him when the time is right, but there's that respect that when you develop a technique that is unique to you, and it's using something that you're not ready to share in the upper rung.

There's a lot of respect for that because we all understand the amount of research and development that goes into creating something new But that being said Most things are under the Sun are shared fairly openly amongst professionals because we have an understanding that We [00:20:00] aren't actually in competition with each other.

There is only one Derek Selinger. If you want to see what I do, there's only one place to go and that's me. You may see a trick that's similar to the way someone else does it, but it's gonna have my own take on it. So I am not in competition in that way with any other magician. I'm in competition with other art forms that, and that's where, the magician fraternity has really understood that we need to work together 

we want people to experience this art form for how it's meant, especially in this TikTok age where magic is treated rather crassly at times. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Derek Selinger: We, you know, there, there's quite a few professionals that are very serious about finding ways to use the art form in the way that has the most impact.

Brad Minus: And I'm fascinated by some of the guys that show, how certain tricks are done and what I've noticed it's little bits, [00:21:00] right? They're never these outlandish things that you know I saw Criss Angel put a cigarette through a quarter once 

Derek Selinger: right, 

Brad Minus: He walks up to this guy and he says give me a quarter everything and it looks like he Puts it in the corner, comes out the other side and it was so cool. Nothing that big, but little things like, Hey, let me show you how to make a card disappear. You know, basically holding, you hold it here and you pop it, pop it out here and it looks like it's gone.

You use your, your hand here and you pop back up little things like that. And I think that's great. Now I don't search for it, but when I see it, I love it and I'm glued to it. Are you finding, is there anybody out there that's kind of going against the grain and showing some of the bigger stuff?

Derek Selinger: Oh, I mean, this is a really hotly contested topic in the community because some people are all for it. Like just expose it all. It doesn't matter. It'll force us to grow. I understand their argument. My argument against them is the kid in grade four. See, when I was in [00:22:00] grade four and I learned, you know, I had a couple magic tricks, I'd go to show and tell and I'd do my thing and the kids would be like, wow, that's cool.

And that encouraged me to continue to pursue the art form, right? So now that kid in grade four, if he goes and does that for his friends, the first thing they're going to do is go on TikTok to see how it's done. Now, what's the likelihood of that kid? Having the courage to go and learn more very low. It's very low.

That's what I'm worried about. They're not gonna hurt me I don't give a listen you could know exactly how I do something It doesn't mean that you're still gonna enjoy it because you understand the lifetime of practice I've put into it and so there's a respect for me as an artist just like, you know Any art you can understand how a painter, you know is able to to paint something 

it doesn't take away the magic from it because part of the magic is in the doing of it. Now, when you get to the professional [00:23:00] levels of something, that works great, but it's the beginners. I worry about the magic of AI. It's what is going to encourage a kid to learn how to paint when you could just put a prompt in and create a masterpiece in a click of a button, right?

These are the problems our current technological age are facing. And, what magic does, amongst other things, what magic does is it reminds us of what it means to be human and that relating to each other, happens on a level that can't be explained. And, it's not even helpful to explain it.

Just like we can't explain love. Like we could see it happen, the chemical reaction. But we know that something more profound is going on. So trying to deconstruct everything in life destroys mystery and destroys wonder. And that then takes away joy, right? And takes away that impulse to dream.

Brad Minus: [00:24:00] I a hundred percent agree with you. The AI generation with the ability to create an image out of a prompt. Now don't get me wrong. There's a little bit of an art form to getting the prompt, correct. And when you get it, you get a spark of joy.

But the problem is, is it's gone. I remember being in drawing class and I was horrible, but the minute I got something just a little bit better than I did last time that would last a long time, knowing to the next class where they'll take that one little bit that I was able to accomplish and do a little bit more and it just, work out.

Same thing, you know, I was big into photography, you know, getting the light right at this time. And, you know, the light was here and it created these shadows. And this time it was here. It created these shadows. Where today it's like, ah, let me try it again. Oh, let me try it again. Oh, let me, let's put it over here. And you get instant, you know, instant gratification with, with digital film, which I don't know if that takes a car. I just think we can make more of it, but there's still, you still got to line up the light.

You still got to make sure that it's [00:25:00] correct. And then going into editing is to me. Is joy too to then enhance it, you know and create special effects, but when I can just You know, say, oh, I'd like to see, you know, paint me a picture of semi realistic of a zebra, in a spacesuit outer space, walking on the moon.

You know, and then you get it and you're like, oh yeah, that's exactly how I pictured. Wonderful. And it's over. There's no like, hard work into it 

Derek Selinger: Exactly. You know, one of the deepest secrets of performance magic. The masters know, like the real masters of magic, know that the magic, you need a good trick, but it doesn't have to be complicated. The real magic happens, in the area of story and relating to your audience. That's where it really happens.

I can do the simplest piece of magic. In fact, I still do it there's a trick where it's called [00:26:00] sponge balls. Okay. And it's these, these little sponge balls like multiply in your hand when you're, when you squeeze them. It is a trick that I learned forever ago. It is not a complicated trick.

It has a spot in my premier production. That simple trick because of the story it tells the story is profound and then the magic accentuates the deeper magic of human connection 

Brad Minus: storytelling is big time and I know I mean I think I've seen that trick a few times doing with other people and you're absolutely right when they sit there and they talk about it just makes it that much better.

But that's that trick where you have the thing and then all of a sudden it's like shakes his hand and he's got two and then three and then it's five, you know, and you know, so that, that's a great trick. And I love that trick. So yeah, I get that. That's absolutely amazing.

So how long did you, what is an intern maybe with study with? 

Derek Selinger: [00:27:00] Yeah, I still study with him. I talked to him yesterday. I talked to Jeff every month. And I have done so my entire career, because mentorship matters, and it's important, sometimes, like, I've had mentors, and I'm a filmmaker as well, so I've had filmmaking mentors, and I've had, movement mentors, and I trained martial arts, I had martial arts mentors.

And those different ones kind of ebbed and flowed through my life. But Jeff has remained very consistent because I continue to pursue this art form and he is a living legend in the art. So, obviously I will take any time he is willing to give me to, help me continue to grow because I think that's the thing that you realize I consider myself to be a master of his art form now.

And, there's a few tests that you go through to know that, but, even as a master, I'm still a beginner, you know, it's such a deep and robust art form that I am learning something new every time. Every day that I work [00:28:00] at it, just maybe the small things that you would go on, does that really make a difference?

And it could make just the slightest difference in an audience's experience. And that's when I'm really spending all my time on now. 

Brad Minus: That's amazing. Can I ask that now that you've spent this kind of time with it, are you taking on? People that study with you? 

Derek Selinger: Yeah, that's a good question.

I don't love teaching it. I've had two students in my whole career. I've been asked by many people to teach them. And if they pass the test, I'll teach them. That's my deal. It's not my calling. Some people are really great at teaching technique and that stuff.

I'm more interested in performing. That's what I want to do. 

Brad Minus: Okay. 

Derek Selinger: So, but I've had two guys pass the test and, worked with them. In fact, one of them is now my business development guy. He does all my business development and he's a great magician as well. 

Brad Minus: See, and that's, and that's the [00:29:00] thing, right?

And I think, and you're absolutely right. I have people that I coach all the time and they do wonderful stuff, right? Just this past weekend, I had one of my, ultra marathon or somebody that runs like hundreds, you know, a hundred mile races, 50 mile races. She decided that she wanted to do a marathon, which is only 26.

2 miles, but she wanted to do it. At a much faster pace than she does her 50 and she killed it. She PR'ed by like 30 minutes. It was ridiculous and she keeps telling me she's because because of you and I'm like no it's not because of me It's because of you you're the one that did the training she goes But you provided me with the tools that I needed right and that's the 

Derek Selinger: belief and the belief 

Brad Minus: absolutely. And that's, but that's the thing is that it's a combination of that. But the way that, the way that I bring her plan, the way that we go over things is what's going on with her body during the training, what's going on at that point. Not everybody has the patience to do that. And I don't think everybody should.

Because there's a certain demeanor, a certain [00:30:00] way, you know, as a coach and not only a coach, I'm a therapist. I'm a, you know, I'm a personal trainer. I'm a, I'm a sounding board. I'm a diary. I'm all these things and you got to have the desire to do that the same way it is to perfect and perform.

I have a degree in, theater and directing, so done musical theater. I've been in the theater. I've been on stage. I've been in movies and films, before I got into running and endurance and I loved it. I still love it.

So I get that, the one thing I miss with the minimal amount of time I have is being on stage. And I get enough of that from doing this podcast, of which, I get to do all the other things, which I like, which is helping people, getting people to that next step, giving them nuggets of information that will make people think.

And get them to that next level in life and to getting closer and closer to their full potential, which is, I believe, is limitless. I don't care who you are. So, yeah, so I get that. I get that idea that, you know, teaching is just not. It's [00:31:00] not for everybody. And if it was, you know, we definitely would have more teachers and we have a shortage right now.

So that's right. But yeah, I mean, I love the fact that you've developed yourself into this. But so let's move into the so you've got this great TEDx talk, about thinking big. Yeah, you know, we're part of your of your career, your development as a person. Did that, like, hit you over the head?

Derek Selinger: Yeah. I won't spoil the TEDx talk. You definitely have to go listen to that. I tell a story in it that something had happened to me on stage that really clued me in on this. But to be honest, I was thinking about the idea of what does it mean to dream? Even before this, it ties back to my origin story because I was that kid in school listening to the motivational speaker that came in climbed the mountain or whatever, and said, you know, dream big, if you could dream it, you could do it.

And I'm like, okay, well, what does that [00:32:00] mean exactly? You know, like, how do I do that? And so, like, I, I went after my first dream and I failed. It didn't work out for me. You know, this, I, I put everything into, into, I wanted to be a, I wanted to be a professional basketball player. Now, it may be like, that's such a young, young man's dream, but it was a real dream, and I went to all the camps, and I trained hard, and I worked hard, and there came a point, like, when I was 15 or 16 years old, where I realized, man, I don't have it.

Like, I can work the rest of my life. And I will not be a professional basketball player. And this dream is gonna die. Now what? You know, does that mean that this idea that we should dream big, just, that's good for everybody else and doesn't work for me? Is that what that means? Or is something else not quite lining up?

And I struggled with this for a long time. [00:33:00] What I've come to the conclusion of is that we have the phraseology wrong because failure is like part of life, and sometimes things don't work out, but it's not never give up on your dream because some dreams die, but it's never give up on dreaming, never give up on the process, and there are times I love, I have friends who are in endurance sports, right?

And, you know, they're not going to be the number one Ironman person on the planet. They're not going to do that. My accountant Kevin is like an awesome Ironman competitor. And he's over 50 and he's creating personal bests. So, he's reframed the dream. For what he is trying to accomplish in his life.

Now if he framed it as, I'm going to be the best Iron Man competitor and win the best one amongst all the people on the [00:34:00] planet, that would not be real, right? Because of limitations like age. But, he just kept dreaming, and that sometimes you have to reframe the dream. And there's nothing wrong with that, like we get this image because we watch, the Oscars or somebody reaching some pinnacle moment that is, we hold up as, the ideal accomplishment.

We look at that and go, if I can't dream that dream there, that makes me inferior in, in the ability to dream in general. And that's, that's the wrong. Message. It's a false comparison. It does not bring you joy. Instead ask meaningful questions and pursue them with great amount of passion and attention and see where they take you because your path of dreaming in the pursuit of dreams.

Is very different than mine. It's very different than, you know, the Oscar winner. We're all on our own path. The personal best [00:35:00] thing from your world is so important. And it's important in everything. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, and that's, and that's why I do what I do. Cause most people come to me, they're doing it with one of two things.

Either it's a bucket list. Which in September, I get a flood of new clients. Especially here in the Tampa area. Really? September? Well, I'll tell you why. Because in January is the Disney World, marathon weekend. So I get people that come in, they're like, Oh, I want to do my first marathon.

And I'm telling you, if you want to do your first one, it's the very best one to do because first of all, the energy, but second of all, it's such a low pressure race. So just for instance, when I go there, I don't race in the marathon to do a personal best at that point.

Well, in the normal sense, which is time along the way, there are characters and you, while you're running, you just get in line, take a picture and you keep going. You get pictures of all these characters and you're in your [00:36:00] running gear and some, like goofy is always in some sort of running outfit when you take pictures.

So for me, you know, it ended up being not, I'm not trying to finish in a certain time, but when I get done, I want to know that. The next year that, I got during the, during the half marathon, I took, I stopped 11 times and I got 11 pictures and I stopped 20 times during the, during the marathon. The following year, I'm going to get 12 pictures for the half marathon.

I'm going to get 21 pictures for that. For the marathon. And for me, for my clients and how I do it, I'm like, the first time you do a specific distance, I'm not having you race it to race it. I'm having you race it to finish it, finish it with a smile.

And that's my own big thing. It's like, I want you to come across the finish line and I want you to have a smile on your face and I wanna know that you're not done for the day. In other words, you can get done with 26.2 miles, go back to the hotel, shower up, get some fuel, take a quick nap, and you can go on with the day.

You're not done. That's my biggest thing. Smile. You're not done for the day. You [00:37:00] can go out to the parks and you're gonna be shuffling and hurting a little bit, but it's not gonna keep you. From moving on. So that's my biggest thing and why just for what you said, because that will spark joy.

Right? The accomplishment, the metal, the amount of characters that are out there, the music, all the people. I mean, that's just like, it's joy in a freaking bottle. And every time you think back at that first experience of that first marathon, which is the other reason why I have them do it that way, because that means that the first time they do that distance, there should be a lot of joy attached to it so that if they do decide to do a time goal the next time that if it kind of goes haywire.

The first experience is what they're going to go back to. They're going to be like, Oh, you know what? The first marathon was amazing. It felt great. And I tried to go for this time goal and I screwed the pooch. Well, I can do it again. Then fine. I'll try again. Whereas a lot of times you make [00:38:00] that first association with the first experience.

So if you did that marathon and you came and you were like crawling across the line and everything hurt and the whole bit, you're probably not going to try it again. But, I get, it's probably the first time that you've worked on a specific piece and then you get to the first time that you put this piece on stage, right?

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about that. So you work a piece and what does that feel like the first time that you successfully perform it on stage? 

Derek Selinger: Yeah, it's, I mean, you having, been involved in theater, I understand this, being on stage is a rush. Like there's nothing like it. On the whole planet.

It's entirely addictive. I just love it so much. And there's magic heightens it, right? Because you're doing things that are impossible. There's lots of things that could go wrong, and I mean, that's [00:39:00] true of everything. You don't want to miss a step if you're dancing. I have a friend of mine who was a river dancer, like was in the river dance group, right?

And he was super good. And so like, I mean the precision that those guys Have is unbelievable and you can't miss a step because you miss a step. You're going to mess everybody else up and the whole illusion of the syncopation, crashes. Well, you know, that's magic too, right? We have secrets and deceptions.

And so part of my job is keeping the secret and deception from your eyes, but still being present in the story that I'm telling you. So that combination of events creates a real high. It's a, you know, you just have this elation when you pull it off. And of course, the bigger the stage, the bigger the thrill.

Brad Minus: Yeah, I mean, I can fathom it. I've been on stage enough where you finish like for me, it was finishing off a play and the crowd going crazy and I could see them standing up in their seats and, everything's great. And then again, you know, I've done shows where it was.[00:40:00] 

Golf clap and you're like, okay, well, I got something to work on. Right. But yeah, absolutely amazing. So let me ask you this. If there was somebody out there, whether they're a kid or maybe early adult and they've been watching magic for a long time, what would you give them as the advice 

I'd like to really give this a try. What would be your first piece of advice to someone that's never done anything before? Never done a card trick, but really just loves the idea of it and wants to give it a shot. What would you say to them? 

Derek Selinger: Yeah, you know, I think I would suggest, there's magic clubs all over, all over, the world and certainly North America.

I would highly recommend not, as much as you're going to be tempted to go onto YouTube and TikTok and watch everything you can, I would highly recommend not doing that. Because You're going to, you're going to burn, you're going to burn out your [00:41:00] creative mind watching everybody else do things where if you're able to, to, to learn with a degree of precision, I think you're going to enjoy it more.

I mean, so there's International Brotherhood of Magicians and or Society of American Magicians, groups in every city in America. I would, I would get onto the website and see where the local club is and go hang out with those guys. You know, you're going to find out real quick that all of us magicians are big nerds, right?

We're big geeks. And, you know, you get different personalities and stuff and, and, the thing I think you'll find with most magicians is we just really love this art form and we want to share it. And a lot of these guys in these clubs really want to, they want to teach you how to do it well.

They're not in competition with you and they'll steer you right. They're going to tell you which book to get, which trick to learn, [00:42:00] not just the latest one that pops up on TikTok and then you can go buy a kit or buy some stupid trick and then, you know, not develop any type of actual skills, right? These guys will teach you.

So that, if I were suggesting to someone young what to do, even old, that's what I would suggest. 

Brad Minus: That's great advice. I would have never thought of that. I'm not one to look, I mean, like I said, it's come up to my feed, but I would never look for it. I'd probably look more towards you.

I'd be like, well, let's look for a book for a movie for a, you know, I might look on YouTube, but I'd be looking for a recording of a masterclass, 

Derek Selinger: right? 

Brad Minus: So. You do have something that's quite unique that I found on your website and I'm going to ask you about it and let you give as much as you'd like to give away.

Talk to us more about what it is and how you come up with Derek Selinger's Box of Wonders. 

Derek Selinger: Oh man, thanks for asking that. COVID kicked my butt, right? I had a tour get cancelled, lost hundreds of [00:43:00] thousands of dollars.

And there was a moment there where I'm like, I think I'm done. This was, I have a film company, I'm just going to do that. Because this is too hard. Nobody foresaw that. It wasn't like my fault. It wasn't like I took a bad risk. But what happened was I was wondering how am I going to help people when we're out of this craziness reconnect to each other?

That, that's how, that's how I started thinking because we're going to forget what it means to be together. So, Originally, I'm like, I need to do a small show, so it just came up with this concept. I need to do, like, an intimate experience. I started to work with some great minds of magic on this to develop material, and I came up with an immersive theatrical experience for 12 people around the table.

It's like a banquet of magic. Where these 12 people go on a [00:44:00] journey through memory, our collective memory, and through an experience that will only exist in that night, in this way. They experience, of course, amazing feats of magic, but the real thing that happens is, the sharing of collective stories, where, like, literally what happens on that night will only happen on that night.

And, it's, it is high theater. It's, it's high theater, extremely immersive and intentional, with all the, all the wonderful parts of, of magic. But the thing that I didn't expect that happened as a result of the show was when the show ended, and this started happening, every time I performed it, this would happen.

I would reach the climax of the show and nobody would want to leave the table. Everybody wanted to stay. It was like we were caught in a moment and we all wanted to stay in that moment together, stay in that pocket and people would just [00:45:00] start talking and sharing stories and this beautiful magic happened in front of me that just was spontaneous of the participants talking to each other and talking to me and this deep sense of connection was just so beautiful.

I'm addicted to this show. I love performing this show to the point that I'm willing to sacrifice all of my big shows forever more just to do this. As much as possible, because it is, something happens when I'm in a big room and I perform for like 18, 000 people at once live and then on television for millions, but like 18, 000 people, for example.

I'm not looking at anybody in the eye, right? You're just pushing energy out there, and you're hoping it lands, and you're believing it will, because you've put work into it. But when I'm sitting at a table, and I'm looking into your eyes, and we're having a moment together, where you're understanding what I'm saying, not [00:46:00] just with the shazam of it all, but with the story that I'm telling you, and how we're coming together, there's something so deeply Fulfilling about it that, I think I found my calling for the next 20 years.

Yeah, I'm going to do this. And it's super exclusive, like my mentor Jeff McBride said, Derek, do you understand how exclusive this experience is? If you perform this twice a week, every week for the rest of your career, you're going to have less than 40, 000 people that ever see it. Ever. And I'm like, that's both a kind of a sad thing, but also so beautiful because it means that for those people, it's going to have deep meaning, 

Brad Minus: okay. Well, I'm bringing a couple people with me. I am just that fascinated with it. I just love the way you talk about it. It's something that's needed so badly right now, with social media and with, the division in our world right now.

[00:47:00] It's so needed for us to actually have contact with one another. You know, we complain about traffic here and there, but that's mostly like work and and errand traffic. Every other weekend, somebody was saying, Hey, come over, play cards or, Hey, let's get a board game out or something, you know, it was, it was coming back, you know, right before COVID.

There was a lot of this stuff that was coming back. People were having house parties and barbecues and the whole bit, and it was starting to come. And then COVID happened. And, and we were like, not allowed to do any of that stuff. And we didn't want to get sick and blah, blah, blah. And, and it hasn't come back yet.

You know, I guess the bars and stuff for the kids are still, that's still happening, but, A lot of this other things, these backyard barbecues and things like that just don't seem to be as. Prevalent. And you know what? I know what I really can't stand. And this is even before COVID. But when I was a kid, we played Sandlot baseball, we played Sandlot football, we get the soccer ball out, we do that.

And it just be like, Hey, I'll meet you in the field at five minutes. That was it. That was it [00:48:00] was no ifs, ands, buts about it. Now people talk about playing football together. And one of them and they're both their own home playing Madden over the frickin internet. And I'm like, that's how you play football.

And to tell you how, how like profound this is for me. I was doing the New York city marathon and it's on a Sunday on Saturday. I was doing a shakeout run and I was going through this park and these kids were playing. Sandlot football. They were just out there just hiking the ball around and it was like five on five and they were just having a great time.

And it was sentimental to me going back to my childhood, but, but it was so few and far between. Like, I don't see that every day. And that really makes me sad. And I think something, what you've got going on here really kind of touches on where we need to be. We are social animals.

Yes, we belong with each other. Yeah. But this, a lot of our technological advances are keeping us from, you know, touch. And then there's so then [00:49:00] sociological ideals that are, that are becoming bad. When I was a kid, you know, there was, you never thought twice about being at the park, chilling out and an old guy was sitting on the bench reading a paper or feeding the ducks or just hanging out looking at the kids.

And you never thought twice, you never thought that was, that was harmful, but now it's like you see somebody sitting there just enjoying the sight of kids playing and all of a sudden he's a creeper. And he's a sex addict and he's a pedophile. And I'm like, it's just not true.

And now you got to watch it, you know? And we need to somehow get that back. And I think you're on the wavelength here of 12 different people or, six couples or, you know, parties of people and just sitting around a table getting to watch some great magic and then discussing and having real connections.

Derek Selinger: Back like in the 18th, 17th, 1800s, aristocrats would do these things called salons where [00:50:00] you'd, you'd come to someone's home and you would discuss. important matters in a civilized way. We can't do that now. Now everything's so polarized. If you disagree with me, and then I'm going to yell at you and tell you that you're evil, you know.

So we've got that problem, but I think the problem is deeper as you've Connected to that. But what we actually lack is the ability to tell each other's important things and important stories. We don't know how to tell each other our stories anymore, and we don't have opportunity to do it.

So what this show does is it facilitates that in a very light hearted, enjoyable manner where you're reacquainted with the lost magic of storytelling, with people that you care about. And we've done it, for executive teams, you know, because executive teams have to be socially cohesive in order to function well.

So we've done it for executive teams in a corporate environment. But we've also [00:51:00] gone into people's homes. And performed it at their dining room table for them and their long time friends that they care about. And it's so cool because they have this, I'll tell you this story that's happened.

I was performing it, and it was the whole audience, the whole group was, they were all over 65. So a bit older folks and we're having a great time But there was one guy who would not make eye contact with me And he was kind of a bigger dude with a big beard, big white beard, and he kind of would glance up at me every now and then, and then he'd look down, he'd glance up and look down, he kept his distance the whole time, he didn't actively participate like I wanted him to, but I had a sense to let him be and not push him, so I did that, and I'm like, well, maybe he just doesn't like it, well, after the show, he opens up, and he tells [00:52:00] me that the first, sentence of my show Triggered a, emotion for him that he hadn't felt for a while because he was there on 9 11.

He was at ground zero. It reacquainted him with memories of his friends that he hadn't had for a while. And so he was having a moment. A magical moment within his own mind and memory that I could not comprehend then he was gracious enough to share with us what he was experiencing I mean I've been a magician a performer an entertainer for a long time and I love it performing on stage I love people applauding for me.

It's a really lovely feeling but I'll tell you what that story that that guy told That's worth a thousand audiences applauding for me because something real happened there. 

Brad Minus: That, yeah, you never replace that. That's not something that, you know, I mean, you'll have, I [00:53:00] think, you know, as you keep doing this, you'll probably have more experiences like that, but it'll never be the same.

Yeah. Yeah. I was in the military and I was stationed at the Pentagon during, and at nine, during 9 11. I wasn't at the Pentagon at that point. 

Derek Selinger: I 

Brad Minus: literally was at home, but I did go to the Pentagon to help with triage. But yeah, it, and my friends, you know, people that I lost while we're there and think, you know, to be a part of it, it was the scariest thing.

It caused a lot of issues, with a lot of people, including myself, more because of the loss than it was, you know, of anything else. And if you remember, I mean, it was nonstop. Watching Fox and CNN and all these things trying to get as much information as you possibly can and I also plenty of friends and in New York that I couldn't get in touch with.

There was a lot of high anxiety and stuff. So I can't even imagine what this guy. Had gone through when being there at that point in the worst of the worst, but it was, but [00:54:00] I got to commend him and commend you for having an outlet for him to actually be able to share it. 

Derek Selinger: Yeah, I mean, every time I perform this thing, I just feel so privileged.

Which is a great feeling, because I'm doing what I'm really good at and I'm going to amaze you, but I get so excited when I sit down because I know that what's about to happen. I haven't seen before, so I feel like the kid about to watch magic, right?

Because I'm going to see something happen in the faces of my audience that may not have occurred in a long time. And I just, get giddy when it's show night. I just get excited. 

Brad Minus: So, yeah, that is a fabulous way to start to recap, to cap this up. Hey, everybody, first of all, DerekSellinger.

com. And if you want to go straight there, it's slash box of wonders. But if you go to the homepage, it's right up at the top and check out what he's got there. And if you have a [00:55:00] way of, having the ability to get some of your friends together and get Derek out there, or I don't know how else it works.

Derek Selinger: Can't buy a ticket. The only way to do it is to fill out the form on there. And my business development guy will be in touch. We literally interview people. I have to make sure it's a good fit. This is my golden egg, this is my baby, and I have to make sure that we're going to create an experience that is going to really, really serve you, and, you know, for example, if it was for a, a raucous, bachelorette, bachelorette prop, party, that wouldn't be the right, right?

You know what I mean? So, we just make sure that it fits. 

Brad Minus: So definitely check it out. It's Derek Selinger's box of wonders. And then of course, he's got some of those things on the sideways that you can contact him. You get a little bit more about his story about his magic on the whole and his shows is your tour dates on here.

Do you have a tour dates? 

Derek Selinger: No tour dates right now. We're doing all private, all box of wonders 

Brad Minus: there you go. So you definitely need to check it out. And get in touch with him if you can. [00:56:00] And Derek, you from what I can see you on all the major social media. So we're going to put all those links in the show notes.

We're going to put his website on the show notes. And I can't emphasize this enough, but he has got a TEDx talk, and I'm going to link that to that is a must. You need to see this is dream big. TEDx talk. It's wonderful. And you need to check that out as well. So I'm going to put that in the show notes.

Everything. All Derek, all the time in the show notes. And as I've told you, the rest of you, I always do, a separate blog post on this. So I'll put a couple of extra nuggets in the blog post that goes along with this episode. So you can check that on life changing challengers.

com. If you're watching the, the YouTube channel, please go ahead and hit the like, subscribe and notification bell. So you always know when we drop another episode and if you're on Apple. Or if you're listening on Spotify, please go ahead and, you know, get us a little review and it doesn't [00:57:00] have to be a good review.

It could be a bad review. I'll take all the feedback I can get, but just give us, you know, just, just have something. And not only do you get to have a piece of history written on life changing challengers, but you also help the podcast evolve. So I really appreciate that, Derek, thank you. Thank you so much.

This has been a ton of fun to talk to you and it's been, it's going to be in a. Amazing episode. Can't wait for it to get released and yes, thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep making those dreams. 

Derek Selinger: And you as well. I really appreciate this conversation. 

So thank you and to your audience as well. 

Brad Minus: Thank you again for Derek and myself and we'll see you in the next one.