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Overcoming Sexual Addiction: Logan Hufford's Journey from Struggle to Recovery

Overcoming Sexual Addiction: Logan Hufford's Journey from Struggle to Recovery
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Life-Changing Challengers
Overcoming Sexual Addiction: Logan Hufford's Journey from Struggle to Recovery
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Season 2

Could the path to recovery be hidden in the last place you'd think to look? Logan Hufford, a mentor for those grappling with sexual addiction, joins us on Life Changing Challengers to share his powerful story. Raised in a loving conservative Christian family in Alaska, Logan's journey takes us from the icy landscapes of his hometown to the warmer, bustling environments of places like Houston. His passion for sports and a career in sales couldn't shield him from the deep-rooted struggles he faced, but his candid recounting of these experiences is both eye-opening and inspiring.

Logan's battle with sexual addiction began with early objectification and evolved into a pattern of risky behaviors and infidelity, affecting both his personal and professional life. Discover the psychological triggers and complex nature of addiction as Logan opens up about his darkest moments. From losing jobs to nearly losing his marriage, Logan's story is a stark reminder of the powerful grip of addiction. However, what stands out is his transformative journey through faith-based recovery programs like SAA, Celebrate Recovery, and Prodigals International. Logan's commitment to mentorship and accountability became the pillars of his recovery, allowing him to rebuild his life and marriage.

Now, as a mentor, Logan dedicates his life to helping others navigate their way out of addiction. This episode sheds light on the importance of community, faith, and ongoing support systems for those struggling with sexual addiction. Tune in to hear how Logan's experiences have shaped his approach to mentorship, the significance of sobriety coins, and the vital role of mutual recovery in relationships. Don't miss this heartfelt conversation that promises to offer hope, guidance, and a renewed sense of possibility for anyone facing similar battles. Follow Logan on Instagram for more insights and support as you embark on your own journey to recovery.

Contact Logan @ Prodigals of Alaska
Instagram: @no.longer.in.bondage
LinkedIn: @logan-hufford
ProdigalsofAlaska.com

Have an idea or feedback? Click here to share.

Contact Brad @ Life Changing Challengers
Instagram: @bradaminus
Facebook: @bradaminus
X(Twitter): @bradaminus
YouTube: @lifechangingchallengers
LifeChangingChallengers.com

Chapters

00:26 - Life Changing Challengers - Logan's Story

03:37 - Life Changes in Alaska and Houston

12:33 - Early Roots of Sexual Addiction

19:59 - Predatory Behavior and Risky Choices

35:15 - Struggles and Triggers in Infidelity

39:01 - Triggers and Predatory Behavior in Addiction

44:08 - Daily Struggle With Sexual Addiction

49:25 - Transformation Through Faith-Based Recovery

59:42 - Journey of Recovery and Mentorship

01:13:18 - Taking Over Mentorship and Recovery

01:21:13 - Navigating Relationships and Recovery

01:29:12 - Speaking Out on Sexual Addiction

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:01.562 --> 00:00:05.852
And we're back and welcome back to another episode of Life Changing Challengers.

00:00:05.852 --> 00:00:15.512
As always, I'm your host, brad Minus, and I am very lucky to have on the show today Logan Hufford.

00:00:15.512 --> 00:00:19.791
He is a prodigal's sexual addiction mentor.

00:00:19.791 --> 00:00:32.405
So, as you can tell, we're straying off a little bit from our normal episodes of fitness and stuff and we're walking into more of an addiction and coming back from addiction, and Logan's got a great story.

00:00:32.405 --> 00:00:36.566
So I just want to say Logan, welcome, and how are you doing today?

00:00:36.566 --> 00:00:37.865
You're out there in Alaska, right?

00:00:38.466 --> 00:00:38.747
Yes, sir.

00:00:38.747 --> 00:00:40.204
Yeah, I'm doing well, Brad.

00:00:40.204 --> 00:00:42.347
Thank you so much for giving the opportunity to talk with you.

00:00:43.220 --> 00:00:44.670
Oh no, the honor is all mine, Brad.

00:00:44.670 --> 00:00:46.119
Thank you so much for giving the opportunity to talk with you.

00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:49.301
Oh no, the honor is all mine.

00:00:49.301 --> 00:00:49.963
So you're in Alaska, right?

00:00:50.003 --> 00:00:50.064
now.

00:00:50.064 --> 00:00:50.966
So this is still summer for you too, right?

00:00:50.966 --> 00:00:53.832
Yep, okay, yeah, we do get beautiful summer days Like right now.

00:00:53.832 --> 00:00:54.921
It's mid seventies.

00:00:54.921 --> 00:00:59.692
It's gorgeous outside Now mid seventies, like I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt.

00:00:59.692 --> 00:01:01.223
You're not going to catch me in anything more than that.

00:01:01.223 --> 00:01:11.052
This is like hot weather for us, and we also only get maybe 10 to 12 days a year like this oh, okay, yeah, we take them when we get them.

00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:14.388
Yeah, I can imagine and I and if you would have come down here?

00:01:14.388 --> 00:01:16.012
So I'm the total opposite.

00:01:16.012 --> 00:01:25.468
You're like, let's see, if I look at this way, you're like over here in Alaska and I'm down here in Florida, so it's like completely different.

00:01:25.468 --> 00:01:28.703
But just a little anecdote.

00:01:28.703 --> 00:01:29.786
And then I want to get to you.

00:01:29.786 --> 00:01:35.028
But I used to be in the military, I was in Washington DC and I'll never, ever, I'll never, ever forget.

00:01:35.028 --> 00:01:42.965
We had a bunch of people that were what we call PCS and transferring their slot at the Pentagon from Alaska.

00:01:42.965 --> 00:01:49.596
And it was like midwinter and we're all in like wool sweaters and we get, we're all bundled up and stuff.

00:01:49.596 --> 00:01:56.129
These guys come in and they're in shorts and t-shirts and sandals and we're like what the heck is going on.

00:01:56.129 --> 00:02:03.831
But they had come from Alaska, so they were doing PT at 40 below and I was just like that was just crazy to me.

00:02:03.831 --> 00:02:06.362
But it didn't take them long before they start getting cold.

00:02:06.362 --> 00:02:07.165
Yep.

00:02:08.289 --> 00:02:13.691
My brother lived in Tennessee and Georgia and now Arizona and he grew up here and he's the exact same way.

00:02:13.691 --> 00:02:16.039
It was within two years of living in Tennessee.

00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.252
He would complain when it would get below 60.

00:02:19.252 --> 00:02:21.640
It's like dude, come on, you lived in Alaska for 20 years.

00:02:22.943 --> 00:02:23.424
And I hear it.

00:02:23.424 --> 00:02:27.973
I grew up in Chicago but we don't have Alaska winters, but we got pretty nasty ones.

00:02:27.973 --> 00:02:29.055
Yeah, yeah, great.

00:02:29.055 --> 00:02:35.332
I got to tell you we were out the golf course at 50s and even like low, really low 50s.

00:02:35.332 --> 00:02:43.187
Right now I can't stand 50s At 50s, I'm like just brimming inside, yeah, but anyway, that's a cool thing to think about, but anyway, that's a cool thing to think about, but anyway.

00:02:43.187 --> 00:02:45.432
So, logan, why don't you start with your childhood?

00:02:45.432 --> 00:02:53.437
Why don't you tell us a little bit about the environment you lived in, what was a complement of your family and what it felt like to be?

00:02:53.457 --> 00:02:53.758
Logan as a kid.

00:02:53.758 --> 00:03:01.570
Yeah, I had a fantastic infrastructure, definitely took it for granted at the time, but had a loving family.

00:03:01.570 --> 00:03:04.368
Both parents raised me baby of five.

00:03:04.368 --> 00:03:07.461
I'm still very close with my siblings to this day.

00:03:07.461 --> 00:03:09.987
Four of us still live in Alaska.

00:03:09.987 --> 00:03:12.221
In fact, I actually work with two of my siblings.

00:03:12.441 --> 00:03:21.651
My parents both live in Anchorage, alaska, which is where I grew up Conservative, for better or for worse, definitely sheltered, not in a crazy way, but definitely sheltered.

00:03:21.651 --> 00:03:23.645
We lived a few miles out.

00:03:23.645 --> 00:03:24.548
Anchorage is a real city.

00:03:24.548 --> 00:03:27.317
It's not a million people or anything like that, a few hundred thousand people.

00:03:27.317 --> 00:03:29.685
It's a legitimate city infrastructure.

00:03:29.685 --> 00:03:31.292
But we were a few miles outside.

00:03:31.292 --> 00:03:36.866
We were like eight to 10 minutes outside of the main street, even like a gas station.

00:03:36.866 --> 00:03:51.966
So we were geographically sheltered and then born and raised in a I hate the term religious because that implies usually a negative connotation but like we were and we went to church, not just culturally but like we were.

00:03:51.966 --> 00:03:58.695
We had a really healthy family, generally speaking of my parents, taught us right from wrong.

00:03:58.695 --> 00:04:01.669
They lived it again, took all this for granted as a kid.

00:04:01.669 --> 00:04:03.980
Right, I didn't like the rules I didn't.

00:04:03.980 --> 00:04:12.445
But I don't think there's ever a time in my life growing up, where I didn't feel safe and loved, which I know now.

00:04:12.445 --> 00:04:16.427
Those are a couple of bold statements, and yet they're true.

00:04:17.761 --> 00:04:19.365
What was the religion that you grew up in?

00:04:19.365 --> 00:04:20.148
If you don't want me to ask.

00:04:20.649 --> 00:04:22.060
Yeah, no, not at all, and it's.

00:04:22.060 --> 00:04:27.290
It's still part of my life, it's just there's ownership of it now recently, versus just as a kid going to church.

00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:34.552
Yeah, non-denominational christian, um beautiful, always been part of my life no, that's great, and then I don't.

00:04:34.651 --> 00:04:36.798
I I think it's a.

00:04:36.798 --> 00:04:38.764
That's something that we need to bring back.

00:04:38.764 --> 00:04:45.451
So we need to get away from that idea that if you grew up in a religious family or you grew up in the church, that it's's a negative connotation.

00:04:45.451 --> 00:04:46.475
So I think this is a good.

00:04:46.475 --> 00:04:47.338
This is a good start.

00:04:47.338 --> 00:04:51.470
We needed more talk about it, that it's the morals and values, but that's neither here nor there.

00:04:51.470 --> 00:04:52.581
So you grew up in the church.

00:04:52.581 --> 00:04:55.007
You had a very loving, loving family.

00:04:55.007 --> 00:04:57.199
Were you into any sports or anything like that?

00:04:58.081 --> 00:05:00.708
Yeah, we as a family loves sports.

00:05:00.708 --> 00:05:03.353
I have always loved sports, still do to this day.

00:05:03.353 --> 00:05:05.862
Grew Loved sports.

00:05:05.862 --> 00:05:06.946
I have always loved sports, still do to this day.

00:05:06.946 --> 00:05:07.930
Grew up playing baseball up until high school.

00:05:07.930 --> 00:05:08.612
Played basketball in high school.

00:05:08.612 --> 00:05:10.420
Just would watch any sport that's on TV, which is.

00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:17.240
It's tough living in Alaska because there's other sports fans in Alaska, but it's not the same.

00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:19.766
We don't have pro teams up here, we barely have a call.

00:05:19.766 --> 00:05:22.442
I mean we have a couple college teams like a division two basketball team.

00:05:22.442 --> 00:05:23.425
We are a couple of division two basketball teams.

00:05:23.425 --> 00:05:24.047
A division two basketball team.

00:05:24.047 --> 00:05:26.353
We are a couple division two basketball teams, a division one hockey team.

00:05:26.353 --> 00:05:26.694
That's it.

00:05:26.694 --> 00:05:28.480
No football other than high school.

00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:35.473
But loved sports always have a big part of my life for sure nice, did you play any um?

00:05:35.514 --> 00:05:36.341
you said baseball.

00:05:36.341 --> 00:05:43.406
You said yeah, just just, I just played low level, but you played organized sports all through, all through my childhood.

00:05:43.406 --> 00:05:46.081
And then, yeah, just basketball in high school.

00:05:46.081 --> 00:05:51.452
But, yeah, you know, pick up basketball, pick up flag football, whatever I can get my hands on.

00:05:51.452 --> 00:05:55.408
Although I'm 33, I'm younger than some, older than some, but I don't get.

00:05:55.408 --> 00:06:03.584
I don't get healthier as I go in terms of my ligaments oh, yeah, no I, yeah, I hear that we can talk off camera about that maybe oh yeah, for sure, for sure.

00:06:03.985 --> 00:06:06.891
So, so what I'm getting at and tell me if I'm wrong here.

00:06:06.891 --> 00:06:07.632
But you said you were.

00:06:07.632 --> 00:06:12.470
You were Anchorage adjacent, or were you actually in the city of Anchorage?

00:06:12.750 --> 00:06:13.773
Yeah, anchorage zip code.

00:06:13.773 --> 00:06:23.533
We were in Anchorage but we, yeah, we lived off of a road, like literally one road up a mountain, and we were eight to 10 minutes outside of like a gas station kind of thing.

00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:24.822
Okay, so was?

00:06:24.822 --> 00:06:26.488
Did you have a lot of people around you?

00:06:26.488 --> 00:06:28.346
Was it like a subdivision or?

00:06:29.322 --> 00:06:32.331
It was a subdivision growing up three decades ago.

00:06:32.331 --> 00:06:35.550
It was much more like rural.

00:06:35.550 --> 00:06:39.891
You might go half a mile at some points without seeing another house.

00:06:39.891 --> 00:06:42.887
Now, every couple acres there's a house.

00:06:42.887 --> 00:06:47.730
Okay, not a lot of kids, though you just took the question.

00:06:47.860 --> 00:06:48.822
You just answered my question.

00:06:48.822 --> 00:06:50.127
I was just about to ask that.

00:06:50.127 --> 00:06:51.670
Well, that's great, that's great.

00:06:51.670 --> 00:06:52.281
So did you?

00:06:52.281 --> 00:06:53.824
Did you end up going to college?

00:06:53.824 --> 00:06:55.009
I?

00:06:55.048 --> 00:07:04.281
went to college two classes for one semester, was paying for it out of pocket and quickly was like I'm just, I'm doing this just because that's what you're supposed to do after you graduate.

00:07:04.281 --> 00:07:09.413
I got no, I have no goals or ambitions that are specific to like what am I doing here.

00:07:09.413 --> 00:07:13.029
So, yeah, didn't go back after that one semester.

00:07:13.029 --> 00:07:22.214
Yeah, always enjoyed elements of learning, but definitely like traditional book learning in a school system Not my thing.

00:07:23.742 --> 00:07:24.687
I get that.

00:07:24.687 --> 00:07:31.091
With that same attitude I probably shouldn't have gone to college, but because I definitely learned more outside of it.

00:07:31.091 --> 00:07:33.680
But so I get, I totally, I totally get that.

00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:35.045
So what did you?

00:07:35.045 --> 00:07:35.387
So?

00:07:35.387 --> 00:07:37.033
What'd you end up doing after high school?

00:07:37.033 --> 00:07:38.197
What?

00:07:38.197 --> 00:07:43.483
Yeah, you had one semester, so yeah, so graduated spring of 08.

00:07:43.723 --> 00:07:44.644
That's, let's see.

00:07:44.644 --> 00:07:47.367
I started selling Cutco knives.

00:07:47.367 --> 00:07:48.747
That was my first job.

00:07:48.747 --> 00:07:55.173
I was 17 years old, actually didn't have a license or a car when I started, which is hard to do.

00:07:55.173 --> 00:07:56.473
It's contrary to popular belief.

00:07:56.473 --> 00:08:00.778
It's like it's not actually a door to door, and door to door up in Alaska is not a good thing.

00:08:00.778 --> 00:08:02.365
Houses are far apart.

00:08:02.365 --> 00:08:14.209
Yeah, I would get rides or ride my bike or whatever I could do to get to a house and did that for several months and developed a love for sales.

00:08:14.209 --> 00:08:21.247
Was was good at it and did that for off and on a little bit, but did that for about a year and then went down to Houston Texas in oh nine.

00:08:21.247 --> 00:08:24.851
So I was 18 and I turned 19 down in Houston Texas in 09.

00:08:24.851 --> 00:08:27.737
So I was 18 and I turned 19 down in Houston.

00:08:27.776 --> 00:08:33.663
So talking about Florida, houston, yeah, just complete opposite, right?

00:08:33.663 --> 00:08:37.419
Giant city, both population and size-wise, obviously went from negative, literally negative 20, because it was one of the coldest winters we'd had in years.

00:08:37.419 --> 00:08:39.625
So it was like negative 10 to 20 every day.

00:08:39.625 --> 00:08:43.673
And then that summer I'm going 100 to 105 degrees.

00:08:43.673 --> 00:08:57.190
And then that summer I'm going 100 to 105 degrees, 95 to 100% humidity every day, going from sheltered living with my parents and my siblings to now I'm living with a bunch of dudes in an apartment complex and I didn't have a bunch of free time.

00:08:57.190 --> 00:08:58.870
I worked long shifts.

00:08:58.870 --> 00:09:04.576
I was doing door-to-door alarm sales down there Me and a bunch of Mormons and it was down there for that summer.

00:09:04.576 --> 00:09:21.164
So there's as we'll get into later, I was it was a pretty pivotal summer and came back to Alaska and I don't want to jump too far ahead because at that point, for better for worse, that's where the story really starts to ratchet up, all right.

00:09:21.205 --> 00:09:22.726
Well, we're going to, and we're just about to do that.

00:09:22.726 --> 00:09:24.809
So, but what was it the job?

00:09:24.809 --> 00:09:28.033
Was it the alarm sales that got you down to Houston?

00:09:28.594 --> 00:09:31.503
Not specifically, definitely not alarm sales specifically.

00:09:31.503 --> 00:09:37.144
There was some allure of you can make fantastic money doing that If you're, you're built for it.

00:09:37.144 --> 00:09:38.510
I loved sales.

00:09:38.510 --> 00:09:41.682
Didn't love door-to-door sales in a hundred degree weather, Did not love that.

00:09:41.682 --> 00:09:47.885
I did a lot of going to find a gas station and go grab a popsicle and go sit in the air conditioning for an hour.

00:09:47.885 --> 00:09:49.208
Was not built for that.

00:09:49.208 --> 00:09:55.192
But yeah, there was an allure of okay, I can make potentially 50, 60, 70 grand in the summer.

00:09:55.192 --> 00:09:56.644
Some guys made six figures that summer.

00:09:56.644 --> 00:09:59.851
I did not, but a big part of it was I could not.

00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:08.048
I told you I've already said a couple of different times how much I took for granted my childhood, right, and so I could not wait to get out of Alaska.

00:10:08.048 --> 00:10:15.115
I could not wait to get away from my family, Not because I hated them or anything, it was just like let me go experience life, Let me go experience something different.

00:10:15.115 --> 00:10:17.596
So and I realized that can be pretty common.

00:10:17.596 --> 00:10:22.625
But now it's like those are not bad things, right, it's like, man, Alaska is a pretty sweet place to live.

00:10:22.625 --> 00:10:26.974
A lot of people are like this is their dream, right, and just totally was like bored by it.

00:10:26.974 --> 00:10:31.149
But yeah, that was the allure was just going out and experiencing something different.

00:10:32.152 --> 00:10:34.245
Yeah, Well, and that's the normal thing, right?

00:10:34.245 --> 00:10:35.229
You get out of high school.

00:10:35.229 --> 00:10:36.745
Now what do you do with your life?

00:10:36.745 --> 00:10:42.312
And if you're not, if you don't have a focus, then you got to explore, find out what happens.

00:10:42.312 --> 00:10:50.870
So that's courageous to jump out of the nest and jump into someplace, and especially negative 20 to hundreds and with a 95% of humidity.

00:10:50.870 --> 00:10:52.274
Yeah, yeah.

00:10:52.274 --> 00:10:54.686
So I, yeah, that was man.

00:10:54.686 --> 00:10:56.471
I can't imagine how bad you felt.

00:10:56.471 --> 00:10:59.570
You must've been just absolutely miserable.

00:10:59.570 --> 00:11:02.505
I just yeah, it was a heck of a thing.

00:11:02.505 --> 00:11:05.711
Yeah, All right, so so you're just on there for the summer.

00:11:06.999 --> 00:11:10.328
Yeah, I was down there for like exactly four months.

00:11:10.328 --> 00:11:11.192
Okay.

00:11:11.561 --> 00:11:14.370
And then you head up, then you head back to, then you head back to Alaska.

00:11:14.370 --> 00:11:16.267
What did you end up doing when you got back to Alaska?

00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:26.890
So went back to doing Cutco, selling Cutco, and ended up meeting within a couple months, meeting young lady named Carrie who would become my wife.

00:11:26.890 --> 00:11:39.668
She did Cutco for like a few months but in that time we crossed paths and job-wise I ended up moving away from that and the nature of Cutco it's you're independent and you can do it as much as or as little as you want.

00:11:39.668 --> 00:11:42.129
And so I still did it a little bit, selling to folks.

00:11:42.129 --> 00:11:44.981
But then I wanted something that was a little bit more structured.

00:11:44.981 --> 00:11:46.124
So I did a little.

00:11:46.124 --> 00:11:56.947
I worked for a coffee delivery service for a few months and then I got into the car business and again similar to Houston, but on a bigger scale.

00:11:56.947 --> 00:12:02.504
Very pivotal, very pivotal move there and definitely not for the better.

00:12:02.504 --> 00:12:04.350
But I did that for quite a long time.

00:12:04.350 --> 00:12:07.190
I was in the car business for 10 and a half years, sold cars for six years.

00:12:08.841 --> 00:12:11.980
What, what, what line did you tell with different lines, or what is it so?

00:12:12.020 --> 00:12:18.288
I sold at Chrysler Dodge Jeep dealership from August of 10 to July of 16.

00:12:18.288 --> 00:12:19.831
I want a Jeep.

00:12:20.431 --> 00:12:23.274
Okay, I have a Jeep Cherokee so I'm cool with that.

00:12:23.274 --> 00:12:24.035
That's great yeah.

00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:30.980
No, I just had some fun.

00:12:30.980 --> 00:12:35.533
There were some cool parts about it, but, yeah, there was a lot of elements that I'll put it this way I try not to be a controlling parent.

00:12:35.533 --> 00:12:40.147
I wouldn't ever want any of my kids to work in the car business.

00:12:40.147 --> 00:12:41.389
Hard pass.

00:12:41.389 --> 00:12:44.144
There's a lot of things that I would be fine with.

00:12:44.144 --> 00:12:46.241
Go experiment, go try this, maybe go try that.

00:12:46.241 --> 00:12:52.469
If they are like dad, I want to go work at a car dealership, I would sit them down and I would have a talk with them for a few weeks.

00:12:53.071 --> 00:12:54.475
Oh, and I'm right there with you.

00:12:54.475 --> 00:12:54.995
I don't.

00:12:54.995 --> 00:13:00.389
The only way that I get to say anything that goes on in my life is when there's a parallel.

00:13:00.389 --> 00:13:09.534
And yes, I lived in arizona and when I got out school, I got a job with an insurance company that was just starting to open up their lines in Arizona.

00:13:09.534 --> 00:13:12.975
So I was like, oh great, I'll be the first one on the ground, I'll be at the ground running blah, blah, blah.

00:13:12.975 --> 00:13:21.168
That didn't work out and for a time period afterwards I sold Hondas and, yeah, I never felt so sleazy in my life and nothing.

00:13:21.168 --> 00:13:22.350
About 10 and a half years.

00:13:22.350 --> 00:13:27.216
I get that right, but I just the way that it was back then.

00:13:27.216 --> 00:13:29.389
Now you're talking about times when there isn't computers.

00:13:29.389 --> 00:13:32.590
There's not ways to use the internet to find your people.

00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:35.249
Basically, they walked in and they didn't buy a car.

00:13:35.249 --> 00:13:40.405
Then you got their number and you just kept badgering them until they came back in to buy a new car and it just yeah, just at the time.

00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:46.182
I just felt it just didn't feel right.

00:13:46.182 --> 00:13:46.602
I didn't long for it.

00:13:46.602 --> 00:13:59.086
It didn't last long for me, again, not to jump ahead as I share my story, that this will gain a more full-bodied context, but not joking, when I talk about, when I think about when I got out of the car business, it's, I literally think about it and refer to it as a guy getting out of prison.

00:13:59.086 --> 00:14:00.090
Yep, that's when I got out.

00:14:07.820 --> 00:14:09.985
There's zero desire ever to basically step foot in a dealership, let alone work there again.

00:14:09.985 --> 00:14:11.048
Yeah, I, yeah, I only can imagine so.

00:14:11.048 --> 00:14:11.910
But this is.

00:14:11.910 --> 00:14:13.937
This is 10 and a half years.

00:14:13.937 --> 00:14:15.139
Is your turning point, right?

00:14:17.465 --> 00:14:17.946
it's yeah.

00:14:17.946 --> 00:14:22.015
So there's the first six years, as I'll get into.

00:14:22.015 --> 00:14:47.085
The first six years was basically not because of the car business I'm not blaming that but it was basically a hell on earth period for me and my family, as I my life just became this hell on earth Still was in the car business for four and a half years, was able to get out of the floor, and I worked in finance for four and a half years but still couldn't wait to get out of the industry, even though it was a little bit different environment.

00:14:47.546 --> 00:14:48.669
Yeah, at least in the finance.

00:14:48.669 --> 00:14:50.101
And that was that's what we all wanted, right?

00:14:50.101 --> 00:15:00.484
Everybody wanted to be okay, you're going to, you're going to pay your dues on the floor, get to sit behind a desk and you're not trying to make the sale, you're just trying to do the upsells and you're doing the financing.

00:15:00.484 --> 00:15:02.506
So yeah, so no, you got to that point.

00:15:02.527 --> 00:15:11.052
That's what we all thought was going to be the greatest part, but all right, well, so they got to open the doors and close the doors and close the gate and drop the alarm and yeah, exactly.

00:15:11.373 --> 00:15:15.106
And then where you, and where those were the people that you went to, right, do you get to the finance people?

00:15:15.106 --> 00:15:16.510
Hey, can we get this done?

00:15:16.510 --> 00:15:25.880
What do we need?

00:15:25.880 --> 00:15:26.702
What do we need to get this done?

00:15:26.702 --> 00:15:29.730
That's that was our, that was the big, that was the vocabulary, the jargon, that was going on, yeah, so, yeah, I thought that was great.

00:15:29.730 --> 00:15:31.553
So, all right, I let's roll into this.

00:15:31.553 --> 00:15:32.976
So did you not say, do you realize?

00:15:32.976 --> 00:15:42.562
But did your behavior start before these, this, the sexual addiction behaviors, just that beginning, started that start prior to you getting into the car business?

00:15:42.562 --> 00:15:43.404
Was it after?

00:15:43.404 --> 00:15:47.529
Was it something that had been rolling around since, but even before that?

00:15:48.350 --> 00:15:55.027
yeah, behaviors totally started before that, but it would.

00:15:55.027 --> 00:16:06.528
So there's a lot of my story that I mean you'll probably get sick of me saying versions of this there's a lot of my story where it's like there wasn't really this singular moment, this singular thing.

00:16:06.528 --> 00:16:08.451
It was a slow progression, right?

00:16:08.451 --> 00:16:14.489
Well, when it comes to that question you just asked, were the behaviors present before the car business?

00:16:14.489 --> 00:16:23.354
On one hand, there's a little bit of before and after that point, but the behaviors themselves were completely.

00:16:23.354 --> 00:16:24.484
There was a black and white difference.

00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:37.591
So think of it like there's the cliche thing that we see on the Facebook memes about a bamboo grows for years under underground right and the roots are spreading and all you don't see anything until it starts shooting out of the ground and then it's just crazy.

00:16:37.591 --> 00:16:52.255
Honestly, I should probably learn the science of that so I can spout it better, because that is exactly what my sexual addiction looked like, literally, as a kid looking at not even what anyone would generally define as pornography.

00:16:52.255 --> 00:16:53.081
Literally.

00:16:53.081 --> 00:17:03.248
The first time I sexually objectified pictures of women, it was lingerie and bikini ads in a JC Penney magazine, because that's what was available to me.

00:17:03.248 --> 00:17:04.090
There were no Playboys.

00:17:04.090 --> 00:17:05.526
We're talking late nineties.

00:17:05.526 --> 00:17:07.086
There's no iPads and smartphones.

00:17:07.086 --> 00:17:10.386
So that was my introduction to pornography.

00:17:10.386 --> 00:17:18.752
Not technically even porn right it was but I say it's my introduction to porn though, because it was me sexually objectifying pictures of women.

00:17:18.752 --> 00:17:21.869
So to me I'm like that's a pretty good definition of porn.

00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:23.185
So that's as a kid.

00:17:23.185 --> 00:17:26.726
And then eventually get to the point where I'm.

00:17:26.726 --> 00:17:27.568
I learned how to masturbate.

00:17:27.568 --> 00:17:36.113
I'm looking at videos, hardcore videos, online, and this is not a quick progression time-wise, this was over the course of a few years.

00:17:36.113 --> 00:17:51.132
So, like I had shame, I felt bad about it, but for one, I didn't do it very often because I didn't have the opportunity to do it very often, Wanted to more often, but you didn't have the opportunity, and then I could also totally unhealthy, but I could also dismiss it somewhat.

00:17:51.132 --> 00:17:54.806
Well, it's not so bad, like I'm not doing this and that, and it's only so often.

00:17:55.560 --> 00:17:57.387
I've always been a people person.

00:17:57.387 --> 00:18:00.189
I've always enjoyed people, but I was always very shy around girls.

00:18:00.189 --> 00:18:02.888
I felt extremely insecure.

00:18:02.888 --> 00:18:03.409
I felt extremely insecure.

00:18:03.409 --> 00:18:03.949
I always felt ugly.

00:18:03.949 --> 00:18:05.470
I always felt like girls wouldn't like me.

00:18:05.470 --> 00:18:18.914
So, behavior wise, there was very little interaction between me and girls my age in this realm at all Very little, because I was just so shy.

00:18:18.914 --> 00:18:21.056
I wasn't a shy person, but I was shy around girls my age.

00:18:21.056 --> 00:18:33.343
So when I'm looking at my life, the first 18 years of my life, I was like a little preacher's boy kind of thing in terms of like the stereotypical behavior, even though the seeds had been planted.

00:18:33.343 --> 00:18:49.048
Literally from that early age I had started training myself to seek after new and different and more obviously, didn't know that at the time, right, but that's what I was doing with the type of porn that I would watch.

00:18:49.048 --> 00:18:54.986
And then, as I got older, how I interacted with women my age or, at that point, girls my age.

00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:59.406
I can, if I can, just jump into Houston here, because that really is, that's a big thing.

00:18:59.406 --> 00:19:14.813
So I went down to Houston, texas, as of course I'm sure people can assume, I'm going from this healthy, pretty sheltered, safe infrastructure right Now I'm going down to this big city where, again, I didn't have a lot of free time, but that didn't really matter.

00:19:14.813 --> 00:19:17.255
Seriously, I thank God I didn't have a lot of free time.

00:19:17.255 --> 00:19:19.696
Thank God I didn't have a car of my own.

00:19:19.696 --> 00:19:27.869
I had to borrow a car because I got myself into plenty of trouble and who knows what would have happened if I had my own car if I had more time off.

00:19:27.869 --> 00:19:34.146
I worked six days a week like 12 hour shifts, but in those nights I would.

00:19:34.887 --> 00:20:10.795
I think it took me probably a month or two really to like ramp up and get over my fears and stuff like that, but I started to see some okay, I can get some attention from girls, I can get some attention from women, and once I saw that with not porn but with women in front of me, they would give me attention, I started going hog wild fast and so my introduction to sexual encounters with women started down there, as well as partying, mixing that with mixing alcohol, with sexual encounters, drugs with sexual encounters.

00:20:10.795 --> 00:20:24.056
I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm so thankful that I had that I didn't have more freedoms down there, because I literally wanted to be as risky and do all the things that I couldn't do before.

00:20:24.056 --> 00:20:25.244
I want to be as risky as possible.

00:20:25.244 --> 00:20:26.942
Just the more risk the better.

00:20:27.925 --> 00:20:30.311
So so we know that hindsight's 2020, right.

00:20:30.311 --> 00:20:34.500
So let's just put that out there, cause this is, we're getting a little bit of both right right now.

00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:36.005
You're you're telling me that you were.

00:20:36.005 --> 00:20:40.587
You're thank God that you didn't, but while you were in it, you weren't thinking that at all.

00:20:40.587 --> 00:20:53.884
So I just want to let's just put that out there and it's okay, I'm cool with 2020.

00:20:53.903 --> 00:21:10.429
What do you think is the difference between and somebody else who's 19, coming off of a rural area, coming out of this well-adjusted, very organized, scheduled area with your parents, church and everything else, and finally getting this taste of freedom and finally realizing that, hey, you know what, there are some girls out there that actually liked me, all right, cool.

00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:12.406
What do you think is the difference there?

00:21:12.406 --> 00:21:28.492
Because I don't know anybody else and I was in a fraternity and in college and none of what you tell me right now is any different than I've seen people go in it, go into it for a few months and be like they went hog wild, just like you mentioned, and then it would could mellow out for years.

00:21:28.492 --> 00:21:30.905
Yeah, a lot of times it'd be four for four years.

00:21:30.905 --> 00:21:41.404
It wasn't a different girl every night for four years, but there was definitely highs and lows and stuff, but yeah, but they were able to walk away from it and it seems like you were saying the same thing.

00:21:41.404 --> 00:21:47.619
So what do you think the difference is between you and just a normal 19 year old that happened to be in the same situation?

00:21:49.282 --> 00:21:50.705
I, I don't.

00:21:50.705 --> 00:22:01.106
I don't know what the difference is, but I just did to unpack a little bit of like what it was to be logan at that time, and it was outside of the sexual arena too.

00:22:01.106 --> 00:22:12.429
Driving I I would drive as fast, I'm not joking, I would drive as fast as I could with zero regard for anything.

00:22:12.429 --> 00:22:16.904
Zero regard for I might get a ticket, zero regard for I might kill someone, zero regard for I'm.

00:22:16.904 --> 00:22:18.028
This is in alaska.

00:22:18.028 --> 00:22:28.388
This is most of my early driving was in the winter time because he took a summer out or I wasn't driving down there would routinely drive about 120 on winter highways.

00:22:28.388 --> 00:22:40.554
I used to, as an ego thing, see there's a suburb of anchorage, technically a suburb called eagle river, and I could be off a little bit.

00:22:40.554 --> 00:22:42.423
But you're depending on where you're coming from it.

00:22:42.423 --> 00:22:55.086
It should take you about 15 minutes to get from Eagle river to Anchorage from, like the outskirts of Anchorage and as an ego thing, I would see how quickly I could get there and I could usually do in about seven minutes.

00:22:55.507 --> 00:22:56.569
He let a 65.

00:22:56.569 --> 00:23:00.114
Yeah, I remember going 140 miles an hour, which is the fastest.

00:23:00.114 --> 00:23:04.886
I toyed a camera would let me drive and that actually scared the crap out of me.

00:23:04.886 --> 00:23:14.965
140 is not something that we're meant to do, and definitely not in a Toyota Camry, but that didn't keep me from still driving like that.

00:23:14.965 --> 00:23:23.444
So and I say that because obviously that has nothing to do with sex, and yet that has everything to do with where my brain was at right, has everything to do with how I treated risk.

00:23:24.126 --> 00:23:33.059
And there's this weird thing about me too that when I look back and I remember even being in it, I was always I was very conservative.

00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:36.345
In some ways I was very risk adverse.

00:23:36.345 --> 00:23:43.063
In some ways I wanted to and I know I literally just said I want to take all the risk right.

00:23:43.063 --> 00:23:45.651
Both of these statements are true and I'll try to make sense of it.

00:23:45.651 --> 00:23:59.133
I wanted to do all the wild and crazy things, but I did my best to be very careful that I wouldn't get caught, whether by the cops or this lady's boyfriend or whatever.

00:23:59.133 --> 00:24:02.650
So there was this weird balance of and I think a lot of that was ego.

00:24:02.650 --> 00:24:07.509
I can play with fire, I can get in the fire and I'll know when to get out.

00:24:07.509 --> 00:24:10.288
I think that's where how it boiled down.

00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:24.693
So you had this part of you that would completely let go of your inhibitions at some at one point, but yet you would tow the line of jumping, of grabbing one just enough, so you didn't get caught.

00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:33.443
Yeah, cause I'm smart enough, I I know enough, I've got good enough intuition I can get out before I'll get caught yeah, and it makes sense.

00:24:33.625 --> 00:24:35.529
When you're in alaska, that makes complete sense.

00:24:35.529 --> 00:24:36.271
You grew up there.

00:24:36.271 --> 00:24:38.949
You probably knew where all the where the cops hid.

00:24:38.949 --> 00:24:40.233
You might even knew some of the cops.

00:24:40.233 --> 00:24:42.279
So, yeah, that makes sense.

00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:49.605
In houston, though that would have been, that would have been the difference, of course, you didn't have a car, but some of the other behaviors you were going through.

00:24:49.605 --> 00:24:52.188
But while you were down there, I think that would have been a different story.

00:24:52.188 --> 00:24:53.548
So you know what.

00:24:53.548 --> 00:25:00.753
I just have to ask, because in this behavior they're talking about where you're trying to drop inhibitions you got this ego going on and everything else.

00:25:00.753 --> 00:25:03.175
Were you doing some pretty good numbers?

00:25:03.175 --> 00:25:07.182
I said that you didn't make six figures, but were you doing some pretty good numbers as far as your sales were going?

00:25:08.145 --> 00:25:08.768
Down in Houston.

00:25:08.768 --> 00:25:14.451
Yeah, no, it was like we literally joke about it, Me and my family.

00:25:14.451 --> 00:25:19.387
I, cause I had rent, came out of my paycheck Cause they put us up in like pretty decent apartments.

00:25:19.387 --> 00:25:22.146
I owed money at the end of the summer.

00:25:22.146 --> 00:25:24.082
I owed money at the end of the summer.

00:25:24.082 --> 00:25:25.064
I owed money.

00:25:25.064 --> 00:25:34.123
It was so bad I totally quit I don't remember if it was like the first week or a month in, but pretty darn quickly I was like yeah, screw this, I guess I'm down here for the summer.

00:25:34.123 --> 00:25:37.092
But like yeah, I'm not cut out for this, I know I.

00:25:37.092 --> 00:25:38.441
I made no money.

00:25:39.280 --> 00:25:41.221
Okay, I was thinking.

00:25:41.221 --> 00:25:51.469
I was thinking about that because that's the one thing that salespeople just love the fact you can get to that point where you just drop that fear of not getting the sale, you drop the fear of rejection and all that stuff.

00:25:51.469 --> 00:25:54.851
Now you're freaking bulletproof and you're kicking butt and bulletproof.

00:25:54.851 --> 00:25:58.113
I figured that would have just transferred over, but unfortunately it didn't.

00:25:58.433 --> 00:26:06.500
No, in some ways I had some of that attitude, just like I definitely didn't earn it with my sales, all right.

00:26:06.500 --> 00:26:25.452
Well, that attitude, that ego, that like twisted ego, I really, I truly did have that when it came to I mean so I use this word and I've gotten pushed back on this word and I can't understand why, but I'm going to use it because it describes me.

00:26:25.452 --> 00:26:29.175
So I became an absolute predator.

00:26:29.175 --> 00:26:42.622
Okay, I trained myself to get whatever I could get from any female in my path, virtually any woman in my path.

00:26:42.622 --> 00:26:44.884
I would take and squeeze and get what I could get.

00:26:44.884 --> 00:26:48.227
And if that was sexual contact all the way, I would get that.

00:26:48.227 --> 00:26:50.609
If it was sexual texting, I would get that.

00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:53.932
If it was a flirty comment and nothing more, I would take that and move on.

00:26:53.932 --> 00:27:10.125
And then and again, like that risk adverse part of me, if somebody maybe would come what are you talking about?

00:27:10.125 --> 00:27:10.344
I would like oh, I was just goofing around, I was just joking.

00:27:10.344 --> 00:27:11.227
I'd always have some sort of a way to reel it back in, right, but that's just.

00:27:11.147 --> 00:27:12.990
I learned free and in some ways I started to learn this, maybe a little bit.

00:27:12.990 --> 00:27:14.115
A few months before I went down to houston with there were a couple girls that I knew that.

00:27:14.115 --> 00:27:16.965
But really when I went down to houston was literally just.

00:27:16.965 --> 00:27:24.585
It was like and I don't sometimes when I describe stuff I do want to be careful that I don't want to glorify any of this.

00:27:24.585 --> 00:27:32.467
That's not my purpose at all and I also don't want to demean the people that I hurt, the women that I hurt but it was very much.

00:27:32.467 --> 00:27:38.482
It was like a you watch a documentary of a lion learning to hunt, like that.

00:27:38.482 --> 00:27:38.702
That.

00:27:38.702 --> 00:27:47.059
What Houston was me as like a lion cub learning how to seek after prey and that's gross verbiage, but that's what it was Like.

00:27:47.059 --> 00:27:51.550
That was me just taking what I could get from anybody in my path.

00:27:51.550 --> 00:27:52.073
Basically.

00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:54.384
No, I think the vocabulary is perfect.

00:27:54.384 --> 00:27:56.141
You already called yourself a predator, right?

00:27:56.141 --> 00:27:57.824
So you've already taken that ownership.

00:27:57.824 --> 00:28:03.522
So I think what you're saying and the route that you're going right now is fine.

00:28:03.522 --> 00:28:07.830
You've already taken the ownership, you know what you did, and now you're just telling us the story.

00:28:07.830 --> 00:28:13.651
So, whatever, however, you want to continue in telling us the behaviors that you were doing, that's fine.

00:28:13.651 --> 00:28:15.267
I don't think you need to.

00:28:15.267 --> 00:28:19.201
I don't think anything you're going to say is going to demean anybody, because you've already done that.

00:28:19.201 --> 00:28:22.046
You've already taken the ownership, so now we can just tell the story.

00:28:22.046 --> 00:28:22.747
How did the?

00:28:22.747 --> 00:28:23.548
How did we get?

00:28:23.548 --> 00:28:25.750
How did you start when you got back to Alaska?

00:28:25.750 --> 00:28:27.893
How did things start to fall apart?

00:28:27.893 --> 00:28:33.730
Oh wait, before we get to that, yeah, you met Carrie before you went to Houston, though, right?

00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:38.731
No, so I, when I came back from Houston, I went back to Cutco for a little bit and I met Carrie.

00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:41.663
Okay, that's what I just wanted to clarify that for everybody.

00:28:41.663 --> 00:28:46.369
Just to make sure that so, cause there would have been a bunch of other questions that I would have had if you went down there.

00:28:46.369 --> 00:28:49.976
In order, her too, yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:29:01.448
So I went back to Alaska and if you had a security camera or if you're at a documentary film crew on me, logan went back to the Logan of 2008.

00:29:01.448 --> 00:29:02.912
I went back.

00:29:02.912 --> 00:29:07.281
I'm living with my parents, I'm going to church every sunday.

00:29:07.281 --> 00:29:07.702
Well, this is a.

00:29:07.702 --> 00:29:11.101
We don't have to dive into this, but when I was in houston, I went to church every sunday.

00:29:11.101 --> 00:29:12.945
There too, there was like a whole that's.

00:29:12.945 --> 00:29:14.680
That's how I can dive into that, but that's a whole.

00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:21.910
Other piece is like, even when I was living that way and I continued living that way for a I never, ever.

00:29:21.910 --> 00:29:31.933
I was about to use like a quadruple negative I always valued, even if it was just in my head.

00:29:31.933 --> 00:29:34.000
I always valued Christianity.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:43.388
I always valued people who knew Christ, even though for me I felt very much like I guess it's not for me, but at least when I want to be close to them.

00:29:43.388 --> 00:29:50.624
So like I would party all night on Saturday and then still go to church on Sunday, because I and I had to get a ride too.

00:29:50.624 --> 00:29:51.326
It wasn't easy.

00:29:51.326 --> 00:30:09.567
I wasn't walking to church or had my own car, like I had to work hard to get there, and I still and I don't say that for any other reason, other than as my story progresses, eventually, as we, you know, zooming ahead just real quickly is eventually, as we, you know, zooming ahead just real quickly as things got brighter years later.

00:30:09.567 --> 00:30:17.387
I very much see the spiritual connection there that, you know, god, never, I never lost sight of valuing god, even though there was a lot of hopelessness for a lot of years.

00:30:17.387 --> 00:30:32.132
But so when I went back to to alaska, literally just like back to being the good boy, um, and again where we lived, like I wasn't sneaking out at night and yeah, because I'm driving, I'm not going eight to ten miles, that kind of thing.

00:30:32.132 --> 00:30:39.826
So it was like pornography and masturbation when I could get a little privacy and there was nobody around, but still I wasn't partying.

00:30:39.826 --> 00:30:42.921
I wasn't like because I didn't want to, even though I was an adult.

00:30:42.921 --> 00:30:46.151
My mom would not have been cool with me going out, partying and coming out.

00:30:46.151 --> 00:30:52.973
So I was very like much the good boy and met Carrie towards the end of 2009.

00:30:52.973 --> 00:30:55.648
So I'm 19 years old, she's 19 as well.

00:30:57.339 --> 00:30:58.665
Carrie had the opposite upbringing.

00:30:58.665 --> 00:31:02.384
She grew up in Anchorage, she grew up that.

00:31:02.384 --> 00:31:03.489
That's like the only similarity.

00:31:03.489 --> 00:31:05.046
We were born in the same year in the same city.

00:31:05.046 --> 00:31:12.952
Other than that, completely different backgrounds, broken home, no going to church, no God abuse, trauma.

00:31:12.952 --> 00:31:17.944
She had it all when we met in 2009,.

00:31:18.586 --> 00:31:30.049
I realize if you're listening to the podcast you can't see this, but so my foundation, my infrastructure that I was born into was like this phenomenal infrastructure.

00:31:30.049 --> 00:31:32.663
There's no perfect family, but there was a lot of healthy stuff there.

00:31:32.663 --> 00:31:39.327
She was born in a very unhealthy, very broken home.

00:31:39.327 --> 00:31:56.547
She had been introduced to Christianity by actually an incredibly unhealthy, damaging person in her life, but she was introduced to Christianity like, literally was brought to church by somebody and she accepted Christ as her savior, even though it was like this terrible relationship, anyways.

00:31:56.547 --> 00:32:00.103
So she is seeking after healthy living.

00:32:00.103 --> 00:32:02.567
She's like trying to build healthy infrastructure.

00:32:02.567 --> 00:32:05.803
She's like trying to figure out how to live healthy.

00:32:05.803 --> 00:32:09.259
Even though she's got some, she's got a lot of her infrastructure.

00:32:09.259 --> 00:32:15.663
That still is her childhood, that she's still working on Right, and I'm like trying to actively shed that going the other way.

00:32:15.663 --> 00:32:19.576
So we meet at the same point like art.

00:32:19.977 --> 00:32:38.719
We had probably about as about the equal amount of healthy infrastructure in our lives, in our routines, in terms of what we would do and what we would allow ourselves to do, except I was actively looking to get unhealthy and she was actively trying to get healthy and that's honestly, that's something that, like, definitely I see in hindsight, even in the moment.

00:32:38.719 --> 00:32:44.858
I think I recognize that, although I certainly didn't realize the trajectory that I was on, not to that level.

00:32:44.858 --> 00:32:51.089
But so we started dating very quickly, amazingly, and this kind of connects back to like me going to church in Houston.

00:32:51.089 --> 00:32:56.493
One of the things that was really attractive about her was that she was very open about that.

00:32:56.493 --> 00:33:15.584
She was a Christian and she was open about this new faith and because even at that time, even though I was actively seeking to get more unhealthy, in a lot of ways I recognized like hey, like that's a, that's a virtue, that's a good thing, that's a good character trait, I put it that way and we talked about what we wanted out of life.

00:33:15.584 --> 00:33:34.019
We actually had I made like so many terrible decisions and yet there was actually like one piece of the early part of a relationship that was really good, which is we had very real and raw conversations about what we wanted in life and the fact that we both wanted kids, we both wanted to get married, we both wanted it like not to each other.

00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:39.203
Necessarily we were just friends at this point, but we wanted to have a family and we wanted to homeschool our kids.

00:33:39.203 --> 00:33:42.221
We talked about all these things before we even started dating.

00:33:42.221 --> 00:33:43.443
We just had these deep conversations.

00:33:43.483 --> 00:33:59.054
We started dating and then for the next several months honestly felt okay, like I think that's behind me, like all that crazy stuff, because now I'm in this relationship with this person I really care about and what really what it was.

00:33:59.054 --> 00:34:05.409
A lot of this, like this lust, this me seeking after the high they would come from, this attention.

00:34:05.409 --> 00:34:09.057
It transformed into infatuation for several months.

00:34:09.057 --> 00:34:14.849
So porn didn't completely go away, but it went way down for several months.

00:34:14.849 --> 00:34:24.869
I didn't really have the opportunities necessarily to flirt and seek out a lot of attention from other girls, but whether I had the opportunity or not, I wasn't really doing that.

00:34:24.869 --> 00:34:28.039
So I'm looking around, going okay, I think we're pretty good here.

00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.347
I told her that I struggled with porn.

00:34:30.347 --> 00:34:36.297
That was something that I was working on and at that time I thought that was an honest statement, like that.

00:34:36.297 --> 00:34:38.400
I struggled, but I'm working on it and that's that.

00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:46.802
And so I around this time I'm working for that coffee delivery service, doing that a few months.

00:34:46.802 --> 00:34:47.563
That's fine.

00:34:47.563 --> 00:34:50.088
No, no issues there as far as sexually.

00:34:50.309 --> 00:34:51.853
Actually got fired because of my driving.

00:34:51.853 --> 00:34:58.637
Got fired because not because I was, I wasn't speeding or anything but I hit I'm not joking, I hit a building in this delivery van.

00:34:58.637 --> 00:35:01.824
Yeah, we'll leave that for part two.

00:35:01.824 --> 00:35:04.469
Uh, I hit a building and so I got fired.

00:35:04.469 --> 00:35:05.317
He's like, yeah, we.

00:35:05.317 --> 00:35:08.204
He's like we don't have another job to give you, we can't have you as a driver.

00:35:08.204 --> 00:35:12.103
So bye, I got fired on my birthday, oh, which was fun.

00:35:12.755 --> 00:35:31.637
And seven or no, five days later, august 16th of 2010, I got a job at Anchorage Chrysler Center and I literally was like I'm going to get this job and I'll just do this for a couple weeks, a couple months, until I find something real.

00:35:31.637 --> 00:35:45.653
And I ended up working there for almost exactly six years and at that job, I did really well at that job and I was not the most knowledgeable, I was not the slickest salesman, but I was really good at connecting with people.

00:35:45.653 --> 00:35:49.184
I was really good at building rapport and I was really good at connecting with people.

00:35:49.184 --> 00:35:59.900
I was really good at building rapport and I was really good at building trust and extremely quickly, I learned to abuse all of that with basically any female customer that I ever interacted with.

00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:01.922
So that started August of 10.

00:36:01.922 --> 00:36:05.074
We got married June 4th 2011.

00:36:05.856 --> 00:36:30.045
By the time we got married, I had cheated on my wife multiple times.

00:36:30.045 --> 00:36:30.697
Yeah, just multiple times cheated on her.

00:36:30.697 --> 00:36:31.355
Every time I hated myself for doing it.

00:36:31.355 --> 00:36:31.693
I felt all the shame and all this.

00:36:31.693 --> 00:36:32.309
It was never like, oh, this is no big deal, guys have mistakes.

00:36:32.309 --> 00:36:39.492
No, no, I hated myself, but I still lied to myself and then said, oh it, when we get because we weren't living together when we get married, like we'll have a family and I will have sown my wild oats right like that, I truly believed that that would be the case.

00:36:39.492 --> 00:36:41.940
That wasn't the case.

00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:47.476
I mean everything that I'd been training myself to do for years that now I'm like really truly playing out.

00:36:47.476 --> 00:36:53.681
Playing out three dimensionally in the worst ways was only getting progressively worse.

00:36:53.681 --> 00:36:55.284
I progressively worse.

00:36:55.284 --> 00:36:57.965
I was only sounds really bad.

00:36:57.965 --> 00:37:12.701
I was only getting better and better at it, at getting what I wanted, at covering my tracks, at all of these things wanted at covering my tracks at all of these things.

00:37:12.721 --> 00:37:13.041
Wow, so all right.

00:37:13.041 --> 00:37:14.409
So every time you did this, you felt bad about it, and I can see that.

00:37:14.409 --> 00:37:22.547
I could definitely see where that would happen, but yet it wouldn't stop you right, and it wouldn't stop you from from the next one.

00:37:22.547 --> 00:37:22.989
What was?

00:37:22.989 --> 00:37:31.661
I hate this word too, so I'm gonna ask you what your trigger was it's funny you say that I hate that word.

00:37:31.882 --> 00:37:37.079
I get a lot of psychological or psychology words in modern, like psych pop, where.

00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:39.856
And yet they all have like real roots and they all have real meanings.

00:37:39.856 --> 00:37:41.438
Right, they totally are irrelevant.

00:37:41.438 --> 00:37:46.605
Okay, I'll be honest, it's hard for me to answer that question because they okay.

00:37:46.605 --> 00:37:48.036
There's so much that comes to mind.

00:37:48.036 --> 00:37:48.998
Can you rephrase that a little bit?

00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:53.478
Well, I was just thinking that, okay, so you feel bad and we all feel that.

00:37:53.478 --> 00:37:54.101
We feel remorse.

00:37:54.101 --> 00:37:55.364
You're probably somewhere in there.

00:37:55.364 --> 00:37:58.985
There's a Sunday, you go to church and you're thinking, okay, I'm back with God and everything's great.

00:37:58.985 --> 00:38:00.177
I got my wife at my side.

00:38:00.177 --> 00:38:09.159
There's something, whether it be a female customer, that comes in and you're just like cha-ching, I'm gonna turn it on, or something else, or it's.

00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:16.485
You walk into a convenience store and you see the playboys behind the, behind the shelf, or god forbid you like you go by.

00:38:16.485 --> 00:38:17.951
Maybe you had a.

00:38:17.951 --> 00:38:23.956
There was a high school that you passed every time on your way home, every night, and the cheerleaders were out there and and they were practicing.

00:38:23.956 --> 00:38:25.057
Maybe that was your trick, I don't know.

00:38:25.057 --> 00:38:36.083
That's what I'm trying to figure out what, what that was, so that we could then we, so then we can talk about you getting into recovery, then you starting to, starting to come out of it.

00:38:36.244 --> 00:38:44.485
That's what I'm trying to get to so in the moment I had no clue what my trigger was like.

00:38:44.485 --> 00:38:45.527
Like I had no clue.

00:38:45.527 --> 00:38:47.610
It was just like man.

00:38:47.610 --> 00:38:50.981
I literally it wasn't quite to the level where it's like man I just keep cheating on Carrie.

00:38:50.981 --> 00:39:02.501
It was almost to that level, whereas, like this, like cluelessness of man, I keep getting into these situations where I'm having these sexual encounters with women and I'm sexually texting women.

00:39:03.137 --> 00:39:20.813
A little bit of hindsight, looking back on it, I got myself into these situations where I crossed over like 20 like levels of any appropriate behavior, like I crossed over 20 of these things to get to this point where I was even in a situation where this was possible.

00:39:20.813 --> 00:39:22.336
But it it felt like I went over those 20 boundary.

00:39:22.336 --> 00:39:23.739
No, they weren't boundaries, these 20 guardrails.

00:39:23.739 --> 00:39:24.481
I went over those 20 boundaries.

00:39:24.481 --> 00:39:26.786
No, they weren't boundaries, these 20 guardrails.

00:39:26.786 --> 00:39:30.152
I went over 20 of them in an instant.

00:39:30.152 --> 00:39:32.036
It felt like Now reality.

00:39:32.036 --> 00:39:36.106
It probably took a week or it took several minutes at least.

00:39:37.476 --> 00:39:50.880
But in my addiction, in this point where I just trained myself to chase after new and different and more and just as much of a high as I can get, and different and more and just as much of a high as I can get.

00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:54.010
Even if it took 10 minutes or an hour or a month, it felt like an instant.

00:39:54.010 --> 00:40:02.704
None of that is meant to be an excuse, because a big part of recovery was learning to see all the off ramps that I had, all the opportunities that I have.

00:40:02.704 --> 00:40:08.648
Even if I've crossed some major boundaries, I still have opportunities to take the off ramp to get out of the car, so to speak.

00:40:08.648 --> 00:40:14.219
So, in terms I I don't know if this is what you're asking, but this is, I think, part of what you're getting at.

00:40:14.219 --> 00:40:18.045
I recognized some of this at the time, definitely looking back on it for sure.

00:40:19.715 --> 00:40:38.818
So a vulnerable woman was my primary trigger, and I know we were already coming over this, but I'll just I'll say it again I don't mean for this to be anything other than just describing my addiction, what a vulnerable woman looked like for me, and this was me guesstimating, speculating on what would be a vulnerable woman.

00:40:38.818 --> 00:40:43.175
Obviously, I couldn't always know, but for one, of course, I've got my eyes.

00:40:43.175 --> 00:40:44.780
So what does she look like?

00:40:44.780 --> 00:40:46.123
What is she acting like?

00:40:46.123 --> 00:40:55.782
Right Single mom, somebody that was attractive but maybe didn't take care of their health super well, smoker stuff like that, and it was like super unhealthy.

00:40:55.782 --> 00:40:57.240
But that's where I was right.

00:40:57.240 --> 00:41:04.621
This is all kinds of wrong, but I would feel even in when I was selling cars, I would fill out the credit apps with the customers, with my customers.

00:41:09.175 --> 00:41:15.815
So credit score somebody that was a 580 credit score was absolutely somebody that was more likely to see what I could get than an 800.

00:41:15.815 --> 00:41:28.608
And that's, honestly, that's probably one of the best examples of just when I say like I was a predator, that's what I mean, right, sizing up every single aspect of another human being as possible prey for my addiction, for me.

00:41:28.608 --> 00:41:31.420
So I could go on and on.

00:41:31.420 --> 00:41:36.701
But there's all of these things and those sorts of triggers, those sorts of factors.

00:41:36.701 --> 00:41:41.548
I would encounter women and size them up through those filters in a grocery store, in a bank.

00:41:41.548 --> 00:42:07.126
But of course the opportunity was never greater than if I was dealing with somebody for at minimum a couple hours At maximum, as some car deals.

00:42:07.126 --> 00:42:10.548
Is this somebody that I can pray after?

00:42:11.550 --> 00:42:13.692
Here's where that risk adverse piece comes back in.

00:42:13.692 --> 00:42:17.139
Somebody that is more vulnerable.

00:42:17.139 --> 00:42:19.757
That's a 580 credit score that doesn't take care of themselves.

00:42:19.757 --> 00:42:23.699
Super well, old Logan would look at that and go.

00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:44.768
This is also somebody that is less likely to rebuff my advances, somebody less likely to complain to my boss, right, if I were to try something, versus an 800 that's, a C-level executive buying this SRT Would I be triggered by somebody who was wearing a business outfit, who hair all done?

00:42:44.768 --> 00:43:00.661
Maybe, but I probably wouldn't try to pursue anything because the risk factor would be too great and that the ratio of risk to the likelihood that something's going to happen it wasn't going to be worth my time and energy, which is just ridiculous.

00:43:00.661 --> 00:43:01.505
But that's where I was at.

00:43:07.802 --> 00:43:10.875
So let's just, let's quickly quantify it, how.

00:43:10.875 --> 00:43:13.981
What was like the rate of these encounters that you'd end up, that you'd end up going?

00:43:13.981 --> 00:43:14.804
Where did you end up?

00:43:14.804 --> 00:43:17.117
Like two, three women a week, was it?

00:43:17.117 --> 00:43:19.416
Four or five a month, was it?

00:43:19.416 --> 00:43:21.644
Can you kind of give us just the ballpark average?

00:43:22.795 --> 00:43:26.547
It was actually a lot less than that in terms of sexual encounters.

00:43:26.547 --> 00:43:43.157
It was actually a lot less than that in terms of sexual encounters Because I had there was so much as crazy as I went off the deep end.

00:43:43.157 --> 00:43:44.378
There was still so much head, knowledge and belief baked in.

00:43:44.378 --> 00:43:50.809
That I'm thankful for, and the shame and the self-hatred like knowing how I would feel if I got to that place where I man, I seriously just did that again.

00:43:50.809 --> 00:43:56.907
That kept me from advancing further than I did, I guess I'll put it that way.

00:43:57.675 --> 00:44:00.454
So inappropriate texting was constant.

00:44:00.454 --> 00:44:04.186
Every day I was inappropriately texting and seeking after whatever I could get.

00:44:04.186 --> 00:44:07.800
Every day I was objectifying, like that was constant.

00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:13.541
Even porn wasn't a daily thing, because even porn I felt bad about, even porn.

00:44:13.541 --> 00:44:22.135
I and the only reason I say even is because I absolutely and not to get into a whole other thing, but I absolutely view porn as it's a form of infidelity.

00:44:22.135 --> 00:44:27.304
I'm sexually putting myself with this person, but I felt more shame and self-hatred after having a sexual affair.

00:44:27.304 --> 00:44:31.300
For sure, but both of them gave me shame, both of them made me feel bad.

00:44:31.300 --> 00:44:38.208
So I had to ramp myself up to cross over barriers, to cross over those guardrails, to get to that point.

00:44:39.034 --> 00:44:47.744
So it would be to actually answer your question in the end of 2010 or the very start of 2011,.

00:44:47.744 --> 00:44:52.449
It was that winter from then until 2015.

00:44:52.449 --> 00:45:30.610
I'll be honest, I could be off by a few, but we're talking about a dozen probably to a sexual encounter a couple of times a year probably, and because I had to ramp it up to get over the barriers, and then afterwards there was this just giant tsunami of self-hatred and shame that for a while usually for several months, sometimes maybe only for a few days, but usually for several months, if not a year would make me like I wouldn't stop all the behaviors, but I would slow all the other.

00:45:30.610 --> 00:45:34.005
I would slow all the behaviors down Cause I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm never doing that again.

00:45:34.005 --> 00:45:37.639
I told myself that even two years into my marriage, after doing it multiple times.

00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:38.963
I'm never doing it again.

00:45:38.963 --> 00:45:41.835
Not a healthy brain, not a healthy brain in Logan at that point.

00:45:41.956 --> 00:45:43.237
Right, no, I get that.

00:45:43.237 --> 00:46:01.666
So basically, what we're saying is, because of the ramp up, because of the well, and then obviously location, everything else, literally there was something going on daily, whether it be just a text, an inappropriate text or porn or some sort of step to get over a barrier.

00:46:01.666 --> 00:46:02.407
So that was.

00:46:02.407 --> 00:46:04.268
It was almost that was sitting with you daily.

00:46:04.268 --> 00:46:21.353
That's what I'm trying to get at is that, even though this is going on and there is some gratification going on, which is what you're seeking, and but then of course the gratification turns to self hate.

00:46:21.413 --> 00:46:22.094
This is a daily struggle.

00:46:22.094 --> 00:46:31.626
Yeah, because the high that I would chase and I always clarify with folks sexual addiction, it's not an addiction to sex, it's not even necessarily an addiction to sexual behaviors.

00:46:31.626 --> 00:46:35.570
It involves those things but it manifests in different ways.

00:46:35.570 --> 00:46:41.226
Ultimately I would get highs that were not necessarily stronger, they were just different.

00:46:41.226 --> 00:46:51.842
But I would get highs from the text back from a woman that might rival the sexual high of having a physical encounter.

00:46:51.842 --> 00:47:06.139
So even I was feeding myself, I was feeding the sexual addiction to your point every single day, even though to the external eye it might look like I went a year at some point, or six months at some points between some of these behaviors.

00:47:07.201 --> 00:47:08.302
Oh yeah, no, no.

00:47:08.302 --> 00:47:34.300
I've known guys that just for kicks they'd be talking to some, to someone of the opposite sex and for them just to ask for a, and for them to ask for a picture or an inappropriate picture and the high that you'd get just from getting that picture back wouldn't maybe might not even be like fully, fully nude picture, might just be something that was just a little risque, but that the oxytocin jump that you got from just getting that back I can see.

00:47:34.300 --> 00:47:39.380
And if you're doing that daily this was these were usually dares, that would happen, and once every blue moon.

00:47:39.380 --> 00:47:42.635
But if you're getting sick in that daily, I can see that all right.

00:47:42.635 --> 00:47:50.802
So tell me where your turning point was where you finally realized that okay, this is, you're done.

00:47:50.802 --> 00:47:53.304
Now you got it, I got to stop somehow.

00:47:53.304 --> 00:47:57.168
Was there actually an event or was it some?

00:47:57.168 --> 00:48:11.056
Or was it just you sit there and saying, okay, I'm done, I need help and I'm going to figure out a way to get this done one piece of context.

00:48:11.077 --> 00:48:13.282
You alluded to this when we're talking off camera, so I just not to confuse the listeners.

00:48:13.282 --> 00:48:17.476
So I started confessing to my wife several months, about six months, after we got married.

00:48:17.476 --> 00:48:23.827
So for most of these years I'm giving her staggered confessions.

00:48:23.827 --> 00:48:27.242
Pretty much every time I had a sexual encounter I would confess.

00:48:27.242 --> 00:48:28.398
So I would.

00:48:28.398 --> 00:48:32.126
I wasn't confessing the porn, I wasn't confessing the flirting, but I would confess.

00:48:32.367 --> 00:48:36.545
When it got to that point where the self-hatred and shame was would build up like this volcano.

00:48:36.545 --> 00:48:37.556
And then I'm going.

00:48:37.556 --> 00:48:45.485
I feel so bad, I'm going to share all this crap, not repenting, not changing, just changing, just unloading on her.

00:48:45.485 --> 00:48:50.952
And another piece of context we've got four kids.

00:48:50.952 --> 00:48:53.436
We started having kids early.

00:48:53.436 --> 00:48:58.485
My son Elijah was born 11 months after we got married.

00:48:58.485 --> 00:49:01.876
I'm coming home, not just to my wife.

00:49:01.876 --> 00:49:10.458
I'm coming home to my wife and my babies after being with women, after or sometimes while sexually texting women, all these different things.

00:49:10.458 --> 00:49:18.929
When I say self-hatred, when I say hopelessness, when I say despair, when I say shame, like not an exaggeration, right, this is, this was a hell on earth.

00:49:18.929 --> 00:49:23.880
So I'm, I've given her confessions so she knows that it's happened.

00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:27.277
She no woman, of course, should ever have to be or no.

00:49:27.277 --> 00:49:30.119
No person should ever have to be prepared to deal with that.

00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:32.226
But she's in survival mode.

00:49:32.226 --> 00:49:35.364
She's trying to change diapers and feed the kids and take care of the house.

00:49:35.364 --> 00:49:38.724
So she's got no clue what a healthy response looks like.

00:49:41.494 --> 00:50:09.085
But in 2015, the summer of 2015, I had and this is these are carrie's words I had the most hurtful affair that I ever had, for that's carrie saying that it's the most hurtful affair, which is saying a lot because I there were terrible things, right, but I had an affair, all of july, basically, which was very different from most of the cheating that I'd done.

00:50:09.085 --> 00:50:11.382
Most of it, I hate the term hookups.

00:50:11.382 --> 00:50:15.364
I hate that term, but most of them were what you'd call a hookup.

00:50:15.364 --> 00:50:17.903
Right, it was a one-time sexual encounter.

00:50:17.903 --> 00:50:24.380
I didn't want a relationship after that, I didn't want any communication after that, but this was very different.

00:50:24.380 --> 00:50:26.161
This was an emotional affair as well as physical.

00:50:26.161 --> 00:50:27.358
It was the whole thing.

00:50:27.358 --> 00:50:31.045
It was also somebody that Carrie didn't know her personally.

00:50:31.045 --> 00:50:34.581
She was somebody I sold a car to, but Carrie had seen some suspicious texts.

00:50:34.581 --> 00:50:38.318
She knew something might be going on and, of course, given my history, she was pretty sure.

00:50:38.318 --> 00:50:41.507
But I unlike basically anything before.

00:50:41.507 --> 00:50:44.561
I completely lied to her face about this woman.

00:50:44.561 --> 00:50:47.927
I completely lied to her face about multiple things.

00:50:47.927 --> 00:50:51.485
So again, hurt coming from Carrie's mouth.

00:50:51.485 --> 00:50:53.603
This was the most hurtful affair I ever committed.

00:50:53.603 --> 00:51:04.041
And so at that point she's like all right, if you don't get help, if you don't make some changes, then I'm gone, you lose me and you lose the kids.

00:51:04.041 --> 00:51:06.702
She'd never given me an ultimatum before.

00:51:06.702 --> 00:51:11.306
She had never been able to stand up to me like that, stand up to her abuser like that.

00:51:13.940 --> 00:51:15.204
It was almost a year before I got sober.

00:51:15.204 --> 00:51:17.710
That was summer of 2015.

00:51:17.710 --> 00:51:20.034
May 19th of 16 is my sobriety date.

00:51:20.034 --> 00:51:27.927
So not a linear path, not a toggle switch flip, but I started, started to do some things.

00:51:27.927 --> 00:51:29.230
I started to go to meetings.

00:51:29.230 --> 00:51:33.806
And when I say I started to do some things, that's super weak verbiage, but it's accurate verbiage.

00:51:33.806 --> 00:51:35.842
I did a lot of checking the box.

00:51:35.842 --> 00:51:41.221
I did a lot of bare minimums, but I started to put myself out there and try for resources and see what I could find.

00:51:41.221 --> 00:51:53.802
So I went to an SAA group basically Alcoholics Anonymous, but it's for sex addicts Went to that for a few months, went to a Christ-based recovery group and there were some good elements to these things.

00:51:55.936 --> 00:52:00.777
There wasn't a lot of hope, especially in that first group and that's the only.

00:52:00.777 --> 00:52:09.184
There could only be the guys that were currently in that group and I'm thinking like it's good that they were there, but there wasn't anyone that had like a transformed life.

00:52:09.184 --> 00:52:15.293
There was nobody that had a life where I'm like I want that dude's life until March of 2016.

00:52:15.293 --> 00:52:21.465
And somebody that I had met at a Celebrate Recovery named Rick.

00:52:21.465 --> 00:52:23.148
He pulled me aside.

00:52:23.148 --> 00:52:25.382
He was like hey, man, I'm glad you're here.

00:52:25.382 --> 00:52:30.864
You need something more serious than this group, and I'm not trying to throw shade at Cellberg Recovery.

00:52:30.864 --> 00:52:34.726
I'm very thankful for what they do, but that's what he said.

00:52:34.726 --> 00:52:37.885
He was like I think you need to come to a group called Prodigals.

00:52:37.885 --> 00:52:40.842
At that time, the only group was in Anchorage.

00:52:41.376 --> 00:52:42.199
I was living in Wasilla.

00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:54.842
Already at that time I'd already moved out here and already at that time I'd already moved out here, and so I pushed him off for a while, but eventually I went and I still did.

00:52:54.842 --> 00:52:55.826
That was march of 2016.

00:52:55.826 --> 00:52:57.771
Still didn't get over for a couple more months, but that was the first time that I met.

00:52:57.771 --> 00:53:03.838
So like I met rick, but I met multiple guys and I over the course of the next well, eight plus years, but even the next few weeks.

00:53:03.998 --> 00:53:05.898
I met guys who had I met.

00:53:05.898 --> 00:53:25.391
I've met 20 guys probably in that time that have basically my story, but they've got years of healthy living, not just a couple of years of sobriety, not just five years of sobriety five, 10, 15, 20 years, in some cases, of healthy living, of like actual transformed lives.

00:53:25.391 --> 00:53:37.288
Guys that you would, you could spend all day with and you would never have a freaking clue that these guys had been with prostitutes, these guys had carried on affairs, that these guys had been addicted to porn for decades.

00:53:37.288 --> 00:53:51.009
I never had hoped that there could be a new life for me because of the stuff I'd done, but when I met some other guys that had been in those shoes, that was a wake up call that, okay, I don't know what they had to do, but I'm willing to try.

00:53:54.418 --> 00:53:54.860
So all right.

00:53:54.860 --> 00:53:56.498
So prodigals was like.

00:53:56.498 --> 00:54:02.668
The prodigals turned out to be like a step above SAA and groups like that.

00:54:02.668 --> 00:54:06.083
So that's what I'm getting, and prodigals is actually a faith-based.

00:54:06.956 --> 00:54:18.496
Yeah, and again, like self-recovery is too, a big part of it is faith-based, like I very much believe not here to preach, but I very much believe like sobriety is one thing I can get sober.

00:54:18.496 --> 00:54:24.021
For me to truly have a like transformative healing, I do believe that comes through faith in Christ.

00:54:24.021 --> 00:54:39.945
But just being faith-based wasn't necessarily enough, because most recovery groups cell recovery, any CR that I've ever been to most recovery groups operate where they value anonymity.

00:54:39.945 --> 00:54:40.666
That's good.

00:54:40.666 --> 00:54:42.429
They value safety that's good.

00:54:42.429 --> 00:54:45.523
It needs to be safe and anonymous for me to be vulnerable, right.

00:54:45.523 --> 00:54:57.155
But they value safety such to such a degree that it becomes a comfort zone I could show up and share whatever I wanted to share.

00:54:58.119 --> 00:54:58.498
Guys aren't.

00:54:58.498 --> 00:55:03.958
You're not allowed to give me feedback, you're not allowed to ask me questions, because they don't want you to scare me off.

00:55:03.958 --> 00:55:06.099
They don't want you to scare me off.

00:55:06.099 --> 00:55:07.262
They don't want you to offend me.

00:55:07.262 --> 00:55:14.670
No, I for years had trained myself to be a manipulator, right To work the room, this narcissistic sociopath.

00:55:14.670 --> 00:55:19.617
The last thing I needed was a comfort zone.

00:55:19.617 --> 00:55:24.641
And so at Prodigals, it's Christ-based and there's a lot of loving guys there.

00:55:24.641 --> 00:55:31.768
But it's encouraged to grill guys, not just the new guys to grill each other Tough questions.

00:55:31.907 --> 00:55:32.288
Well, hold on.

00:55:32.288 --> 00:55:33.849
You said this last week.

00:55:33.849 --> 00:55:36.911
You're saying this week dude, these two things don't match up.

00:55:36.911 --> 00:55:38.295
What's going on?

00:55:38.295 --> 00:55:53.769
Or hey, logan, for the last six weeks you've been saying I'm just making this up, but you've been saying that every Saturday you go to the farmer's market with your family and you end up staring at this lady that runs this booth Like why not go to a different booth?

00:55:53.769 --> 00:55:55.351
Why not do this?

00:55:55.351 --> 00:56:10.887
Why not go to the farmer's market for, like guys, as simple and basic as advice and questions like that is most recovery groups don't allow for stuff like that because it could be too harsh, it could be hurtful, and I'm not here to dog on other groups, but it's again.

00:56:10.887 --> 00:56:20.478
I cannot emphasize enough I didn't need a comfort zone, I needed people to get in my face and be like dude, what the heck are you doing?

00:56:20.518 --> 00:56:21.378
I agree, I agree, listen, I got.

00:56:21.378 --> 00:56:25.161
I got plenty of clients that I give them a plan and they're like why aren't I getting faster?

00:56:25.161 --> 00:56:26.583
Why can't I get you better on the bike?

00:56:26.583 --> 00:56:27.224
Why can't I get better?

00:56:27.224 --> 00:56:29.306
And then I'm like, all right, well, let's look.

00:56:29.306 --> 00:56:32.347
And I'm like, well, you're supposed to do this tempo workout.

00:56:32.347 --> 00:56:33.389
You missed your metrics.

00:56:33.389 --> 00:56:34.349
You did this one.

00:56:34.349 --> 00:56:35.331
You missed your metrics.

00:56:35.331 --> 00:56:54.105
You tried this one, this and you didn't this one.

00:56:54.105 --> 00:56:57.005
You're doing the best that you can and blah, blah, blah.

00:56:57.106 --> 00:56:57.706
And I see it.

00:56:57.706 --> 00:56:57.947
Now.

00:56:57.947 --> 00:57:02.829
Obviously, we're talking about, as far as situations, it's apples and oranges, but I can see it.

00:57:02.829 --> 00:57:03.489
You know what I mean.

00:57:03.489 --> 00:57:07.552
Sometimes you just need that tough love to sit there and say well, you know what, avoid it.

00:57:07.552 --> 00:57:19.485
Now, I was always getting the impression that and this is something that's new You're saying that a lot of it's actually faith-based, and the only thing that I knew that was faith-based is that they actually used the word God in the serenity prayer.

00:57:19.485 --> 00:57:20.929
That was the only thing.

00:57:20.929 --> 00:57:29.742
Everything, as far as I knew it was like god, grant me the serenity to accept things I cannot.

00:57:29.742 --> 00:57:31.612
I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

00:57:31.612 --> 00:57:32.114
That's as far as it went.

00:57:32.114 --> 00:57:41.625
After that I was sharing and going from there, so I didn't know that a lot of these things were already face-based it's a brad I'm.

00:57:41.746 --> 00:57:42.688
Can you edit this part out?

00:57:42.688 --> 00:57:48.005
Can you give me like two minutes, of course, okay.

00:57:48.005 --> 00:57:49.967
Okay, give me just a couple minutes.

00:57:49.967 --> 00:57:50.916
I have to.

00:57:50.916 --> 00:57:51.657
I'll be right back.

00:57:53.840 --> 00:58:02.695
So one thing that happened it was that guy I mentioned, rick that I met at a sober recovery out here in wasilla.

00:58:02.695 --> 00:58:08.365
He before I actually went to a prodigal's meeting with him.

00:58:08.365 --> 00:58:12.083
At one point I told you like I was checking boxes and couldn't bear minimum.

00:58:12.083 --> 00:58:16.860
At one point I was like I felt like I was really putting myself out there.

00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:17.804
I'm really trying something.

00:58:17.824 --> 00:58:23.027
I was like Rick, could we get together for coffee every now and again and talk about sexual addiction?

00:58:23.027 --> 00:58:27.679
And I'm like my ego is a little puffed up, like I'm really willing to do something here.

00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:32.947
And Rick is someone who is he's become my best friend outside of Carrie.

00:58:32.947 --> 00:58:43.695
He's like my dad, he's like a grandpa to my kids and he's literally one of the most loving people that you will ever meet.

00:58:43.695 --> 00:58:48.797
And Rick looked at me and he was like Logan, if you want to get together for coffee every now and again, I've got time for you.

00:58:48.797 --> 00:58:49.958
And you want to talk about hurt feelings?

00:58:49.958 --> 00:58:57.407
You want to talk about something offending me, that offended me, that hurt my feelings.

00:58:57.407 --> 00:59:00.530
I didn't enjoy hearing those words, right?

00:59:00.530 --> 00:59:02.393
He quickly followed it up too.

00:59:02.393 --> 00:59:13.096
He was like if you want to work on things, I'll walk with you and we'll'll work on this, but it's not going to be getting together for coffee every now and again, it's not going to be on your terms.

00:59:13.096 --> 00:59:16.661
And he ended up walking me through.

00:59:17.344 --> 00:59:18.606
So prodigals is a group.

00:59:18.606 --> 00:59:19.588
It's a weekly group.

00:59:19.588 --> 00:59:27.514
There's no requirement to show up, other than you have to be a dude, and you have to be a dude that says I'm here to work on sexual addiction.

00:59:27.514 --> 00:59:31.065
But then there's a prodigal's mentorship program.

00:59:31.065 --> 00:59:31.447
That's a.

00:59:31.447 --> 00:59:39.496
It's an elective program, usually takes about two years and it's basically voluntary house arrest not from a legal standpoint, but that's essentially what it is.

00:59:39.496 --> 00:59:49.347
You're signing away a lot of freedoms and you're doing that until you graduate from a very intensive 12-step christ-based program.

00:59:49.347 --> 01:00:00.983
So rick ended up walking me through that program, which was yet two years graduated in may of 18 and he was not with.

01:00:00.983 --> 01:00:01.405
He.

01:00:01.405 --> 01:00:06.721
That was not an empty promise that he was willing to walk with me, but it was not going to be according to Logan's terms.

01:00:06.721 --> 01:00:17.744
He was not going to be me working the room and getting my way, which is what I'd been doing for 25 years to that point, and so recovery has never left my life.

01:00:17.744 --> 01:00:25.085
I graduated from the program, still did a lot of the things that I did in the program, still made daily phone calls.

01:00:25.085 --> 01:00:29.523
For a year and a half I had to make a phone call every single day in the program.

01:00:29.523 --> 01:00:36.077
But I still made a phone call every single day for about a year and a half after that and I still make phone calls fairly regularly a few times a month.

01:00:36.157 --> 01:00:39.103
Usually just stressors could be a sexual temptation.

01:00:39.103 --> 01:00:40.706
Most often it's not.

01:00:40.706 --> 01:00:43.699
It's hey, our septic's backing up and I'm I'm stressed.

01:00:43.699 --> 01:00:47.007
Or man, I'm so angry, my kid did this thing and I yelled.

01:00:47.007 --> 01:00:50.300
Or I am so ticked at carrying this, I'm frustrated.

01:00:50.300 --> 01:00:54.068
Or man, paycheck's light or whatever Life stuff.

01:00:54.815 --> 01:01:00.867
I always say I got into recovery to stop cheating on my wife Very narrow, simple thing.

01:01:00.887 --> 01:01:04.300
Well, that's simple, very narrow goal, right, and God gave me that.

01:01:05.483 --> 01:01:13.806
But recovery also has taught me how to deal with life, how to interact with other people in a healthy way, how to interact with life in a healthy way.

01:01:13.806 --> 01:01:16.000
So I know that's the broad view.

01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:22.222
But over these last eight years recovery has never left and I still go every single week and I lead a group.

01:01:22.222 --> 01:01:40.340
Part of that is for myself, but also, of course, I want to give back right and when I think back to rick and other men like him that poured themselves into me, that took phone calls in some of the darkest times when I was feeling hopeless and and wanted to quit and feeling like I'm, I don't know if anything's working.

01:01:40.340 --> 01:02:04.161
These guys sat with me, these guys were in the trenches with me and again I got my feelings hurt, so sometimes I didn't like what they said, but every single one of these guys had a similar story and every single one of these guys loved me enough to speak the truth, loved me enough to help me, loved me enough to guide me down that path Wow.

01:02:04.802 --> 01:02:05.922
Two years.

01:02:05.922 --> 01:02:07.425
That's amazing.

01:02:07.425 --> 01:02:16.585
So I I'm just like because obviously you hear it in the movies and everything else oh, we got to put you in rehab for 30 days and you'll be fine, dry out, blah, blah.

01:02:16.585 --> 01:02:21.447
I hear you're talking about expand to two years and obviously nothing changed after that 30 days.

01:02:21.447 --> 01:02:25.503
We know there's more work to be done, but it's just a map that you're talking about.

01:02:25.503 --> 01:02:28.195
It's 30 days, that's two years, two years.

01:02:28.195 --> 01:02:37.677
So that was you going through the mentorship program Right now, now, but now you're a mentor?

01:02:37.677 --> 01:02:39.240
Yep, so did.

01:02:39.240 --> 01:02:44.458
Was there training after that for you to become the mentor, or was that kind of encompassed?

01:02:44.458 --> 01:02:47.766
Did you have a, an epiphany, someone there going?

01:02:47.766 --> 01:02:58.371
Wow, I'm like I feel loved, I'm getting all of this, I'm getting what I need from this program and it's amazing and, yes, it's hard work, but I'm, I'm, it's working.

01:02:58.371 --> 01:02:59.715
You're feeling that you're getting sober.

01:02:59.715 --> 01:03:00.577
Was there a?

01:03:00.577 --> 01:03:01.637
Was there an epiphany in there?

01:03:01.637 --> 01:03:06.764
It's like, well, how can I turn this around and help other people?

01:03:07.907 --> 01:03:09.148
Nope, no epiphany.

01:03:09.148 --> 01:03:17.327
Okay, like I said earlier, like there's some parts of my story that are like black and white, it was this way and then it was this way, and it was like nope, there was no epiphany.

01:03:17.327 --> 01:03:20.043
But it's something where I can look back and I go.

01:03:20.043 --> 01:03:23.063
I remember what it felt like to go.

01:03:23.063 --> 01:03:25.822
I don't know if anything's changed.

01:03:25.822 --> 01:03:37.003
I don't know if anything's changed, I don't know if I'm different or if I'm just sober a little bit, and then I can look at other points and I'm like yeah, a lot changed, a lot was different, but sometimes it's so hard to see it.

01:03:37.003 --> 01:03:38.887
That's why I love sobriety coins.

01:03:38.887 --> 01:03:40.878
I don't make more of them than they are.

01:03:40.878 --> 01:03:48.018
It's just a coin, it's just a token, right, but everyone's brain's different.

01:03:48.018 --> 01:03:50.126
We get motivated by different things, but I think this applies to most humans, definitely applies to me.

01:03:50.146 --> 01:03:51.550
When I'm in some of those dark days.

01:03:51.550 --> 01:03:53.297
I'm having a rough day.

01:03:53.297 --> 01:03:57.978
Maybe I've yelled at my kids, I've given into temptation, even if I haven't gone all the way, but I got.

01:03:57.978 --> 01:04:05.762
Visually, I've looked at a woman, or you know, and I'm like I've gone somewhere with my thoughts and I'm like man, I'm just the same old Logan, but to be able to go.

01:04:05.762 --> 01:04:21.527
I'm not, though, because it's been six months since I looked at porn, since I had an affair, since I I don't want to look at a woman and objectify her, I don't want to yell at my kids, I don't want to be short with Carrie, but I haven't gone to those lengths.

01:04:21.527 --> 01:04:30.425
And then, as time goes on, the frequency of crossing certain lines goes down and down, and then what it looks like to cross the line also goes down.

01:04:30.425 --> 01:04:32.880
I wasn't exaggerating when I said like my addiction.

01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:39.146
There would be days where it'd be like, oh crap, I had sex with a woman.

01:04:39.146 --> 01:04:41.041
That's literally how far gone I was.

01:04:41.041 --> 01:04:54.202
It was like, oh crap, that happened Well, and I don't want to minimize what I'm about to say, but I would much rather be in a spot where it's like, oh crap, that facebook ad popped up that had somebody doing who knows what, and I didn't bounce away for a full second.

01:04:54.202 --> 01:04:57.552
I still don't want to do that, but let that.

01:04:57.552 --> 01:04:59.177
I prefer that to be the oh crap.

01:04:59.177 --> 01:05:04.454
Then, oh gosh, I'm in this car with this woman, right and so again, yet no epiphany.

01:05:04.574 --> 01:05:08.867
But the one thing I would say was about two years into the program.

01:05:08.867 --> 01:05:19.025
That was when not only did I get to a point where I actually started to feel like I don't think I need to look at porn anymore.

01:05:19.025 --> 01:05:23.786
Even though I hadn't been looking at porn, I still felt like I think I might go back.

01:05:23.786 --> 01:05:30.005
I think I might slip back into it or I don't know if I'm going to be able to not ever have another affair.

01:05:30.005 --> 01:05:44.139
And it was about two years and I'm arbitrarily saying two years, I don't remember if it was a year and a half, but it was a while into my program, closer to graduation than the start, that I actually felt like, okay, I don't need to go back to the old life anymore.

01:05:44.139 --> 01:06:03.079
And it was also around that time, a little bit further ahead, almost to graduation point, where I felt like I can pray, I can actually talk to God now, because until that point, me praying was basically me confessing the worst things a husband can do, like going to confession.

01:06:03.079 --> 01:06:04.960
God, I'm so sorry I did these terrible things.

01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:05.503
Please forgive me.

01:06:05.503 --> 01:06:07.822
There was no conversation going on.

01:06:07.822 --> 01:06:08.978
There was no like.

01:06:08.978 --> 01:06:10.764
These prayers aren't getting very far.

01:06:10.764 --> 01:06:12.320
They're probably not making it to the ceiling, kind of thing.

01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:13.960
That's where my mind was at.

01:06:13.960 --> 01:06:14.824
That's where my heart was at.

01:06:14.824 --> 01:06:23.846
So when I was towards the end of the program, not just because I was almost two years sober, but also just because there was a lot of clarity that came from that sobriety.

01:06:23.905 --> 01:06:25.748
But also the program itself.

01:06:25.748 --> 01:06:27.431
It is centered around Christ.

01:06:27.431 --> 01:06:33.519
It's absolutely centered on the science of how my brain works and things I can do to retrain my brain.

01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:35.670
It's also centered around scripture.

01:06:35.670 --> 01:06:37.255
It's centered around a relationship with Christ.

01:06:37.255 --> 01:06:39.925
So it's both of those things in unison, which is a beautiful thing.

01:06:39.925 --> 01:06:40.856
It's not one or the other.

01:06:40.856 --> 01:06:50.550
So, yeah, no singular moment, but definitely about two years in is when that snowball effect started to happen in a good way.

01:06:50.550 --> 01:06:54.224
Right, healthy living is snowballing on top of healthy living.

01:06:56.675 --> 01:07:04.710
And yeah, and that the snowball effect, the chain reaction that started to happen, better, gets better and better.

01:07:04.710 --> 01:07:07.664
That was your epiphany.

01:07:07.664 --> 01:07:19.489
It wasn't one singular event, but it just sounded like it was a bunch of tiny things that led you down to that path.

01:07:20.115 --> 01:07:26.509
Being able to recognize I can get tempted and then not go further.

01:07:26.509 --> 01:07:33.056
That's a very simple statement and yet I essentially couldn't do that, and I don't.

01:07:33.056 --> 01:07:40.646
That verbiage could sound like I'm blaming I'm not, I take ownership of my stuff, right but it felt like I couldn't say no to temptation for so long.

01:07:40.646 --> 01:07:49.382
So when I would have temptation, or again when there'd be times where I would cross a boundary, I would go further than I should and he was like, okay, but I don't need to go any further.

01:07:49.382 --> 01:07:59.364
I can still pull back from this, right, especially like those first several months, I got myself in stupid situations, I did stupid crap and I should have thrown it all away based on, like, my behavior.

01:07:59.364 --> 01:08:09.452
In some ways, there was one moment I this is a vivid memory and this might sound a little out there, but I truly do believe this is a God thing.

01:08:10.876 --> 01:08:18.359
I don't remember if this was like a month sober or six months sober, but it was early on in recovery and it was a couple of months.

01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:19.182
It was summertime.

01:08:19.182 --> 01:08:21.710
I remember that it was the summer of 2016.

01:08:21.710 --> 01:08:36.810
And I'm out here in the Valley out in La Silla, and I'm out here in the Valley out in Wasilla, and I was supposed to meet up with my wife and our kids and we're going to go to the park.

01:08:36.810 --> 01:08:40.319
And, long story short, I didn't know Wasilla very well because I always worked in Anchorage.

01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:46.305
I didn't actually spend a lot of time in Wasilla and I couldn't find this park and I was getting all frustrated like such a silly little thing.

01:08:46.305 --> 01:08:47.922
And yet this is the stressors of life.

01:08:47.922 --> 01:08:49.850
Right, it shouldn't be a big deal, but I couldn't find this park and I was getting all frustrated like such a silly little thing.

01:08:49.850 --> 01:08:49.970
And yet this is.

01:08:49.970 --> 01:08:50.297
But this is the stressors of life.

01:08:50.297 --> 01:08:56.766
Right, it shouldn't be a big deal, but I couldn't find the park and I'm frustrated, and I'm and I remember, and I was upset because I felt like my wife gave me bad directions, I'm getting all ticked off.

01:08:56.766 --> 01:09:13.439
And to show you like how something so simple as I I got myself so amped up, I like got off the phone in a huff, I'm all ticked off and I'm Wasilla is.

01:09:14.140 --> 01:09:14.641
It is what it is.

01:09:14.641 --> 01:09:17.338
It's a small town, but there is, there's a seedy area.

01:09:17.338 --> 01:09:31.537
Well, I wasn't far from the seedy area and I literally got to the point where I'm like I'm gonna go cruise some streets and I'm gonna go see what I can find, Something I didn't get into when I shared my story.

01:09:31.537 --> 01:09:32.421
I can't get into everything.

01:09:32.421 --> 01:09:35.161
So there was one point, just going back.

01:09:35.722 --> 01:09:42.082
There was one point in my addiction where I started hiring prostitutes because that was a different way to get this thing.

01:09:42.082 --> 01:09:47.555
And then I could lie to myself and say, oh, this isn't really cheating so bad, because there's no relationship with bull crap.

01:09:47.555 --> 01:09:48.479
But that's what I told myself, right?

01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:50.658
So I had already, I had a history of doing that.

01:09:50.658 --> 01:09:59.274
So I'm a couple months sober, I'm driving through, I'm driving to CD area and I'm getting ready to just.

01:09:59.274 --> 01:10:29.701
I literally I remember I didn't say it out loud, but I remember the words in my head I'm gonna go see what I can find, as my wife and kids are like a mile away, probably right at a park that I can't find, and I turn the corner and I'm getting ready to turn right, and then I'm going to turn left and I'm going to get to a street that I know what that street is and I turn right and I'm cruising down the street and then right in front of me I see Wonderland Park and my wife and kids were right there.

01:10:31.301 --> 01:10:39.065
Oh wow and I small decision, huge decision simultaneously.

01:10:39.065 --> 01:10:40.846
I didn't turn left.

01:10:40.846 --> 01:10:53.456
I drove about 200 feet, I parked in the parking lot, I went and hung out with my wife and kids, but like that kind of a thing did not exist for me for years, I couldn't do.

01:10:53.456 --> 01:10:53.936
It is what.

01:10:53.936 --> 01:10:54.878
That's what it felt like.

01:10:54.878 --> 01:10:57.492
I couldn't say no, I couldn't go back.

01:10:57.492 --> 01:11:01.711
I'd already made the decision I'm going to go see what I can find, we'll see where that takes me.

01:11:02.271 --> 01:11:11.712
So, like to your point, enough of those types of moments, enough of those types of decisions hand caked on top of each other, going.

01:11:11.712 --> 01:11:15.820
I don't have to be old Logan, I don't have to be a predator.

01:11:15.820 --> 01:11:21.659
I don't have to say yes, even though I got mad, even though I made a choice in my head.

01:11:21.659 --> 01:11:25.931
I don't have to play it out to fruition, even though I started driving to that street.

01:11:25.931 --> 01:11:27.733
I don't have to actually turn on that street.

01:11:27.733 --> 01:11:30.014
Like those kinds of moments.

01:11:30.014 --> 01:11:43.822
It took a while to experience enough of them to realize that this can be a new reality for me, you get better.

01:11:45.342 --> 01:11:53.266
It's those little brave moments and then they pile on top of each other and yeah, so I, yeah, I applaud you for that that's.

01:11:53.266 --> 01:12:01.994
But that's fantastic that you could sit there and go okay, well, listen, when I'm having kids, cause you could have made the left right.

01:12:01.994 --> 01:12:05.885
They probably wouldn't have seen you if you decided to make it, but you sat there and said, nope, more important.

01:12:05.885 --> 01:12:13.070
Sat there and said, nope, more important, that's yeah, and that's the serenity right, yeah, that's fantastic.

01:12:13.070 --> 01:12:26.046
So how, when, how long after that did you feel that it took to where, the point where you became the leader of the group or a group?

01:12:27.693 --> 01:12:29.177
A long time time, several years.

01:12:29.177 --> 01:12:34.738
So graduated, 2018, attended.

01:12:34.738 --> 01:12:37.002
I've attended every single week for eight years.

01:12:37.002 --> 01:12:41.114
There's an odd week that I'm camping or something like that, but every single week I'm going to group.

01:12:41.114 --> 01:12:53.551
And was it 2019, 2020?

01:12:53.591 --> 01:13:08.506
My mentor and his wife, patty who I haven't gone into this part of the story and I won't really just for time's sake, but also because I'm not Carrie got into recovery herself for healing from sexual betrayal, because the trauma from sexual betrayal is that's a whole other piece to all this right Having a lying, cheating, manipulative, abusive husband.

01:13:08.506 --> 01:13:11.595
So she didn't just say, okay, you go do recovery.

01:13:11.595 --> 01:13:14.506
She jumped into her own healing from this.

01:13:14.506 --> 01:13:21.652
She's attended groups herself, put in her own time and energy to heal, which is a whole other piece of this, which is just a beautiful part.

01:13:21.652 --> 01:13:27.444
But so my mentor's wife, patty, has mentored Carrie for years as well.

01:13:27.444 --> 01:13:37.524
So, rick and Patty, they've become some of our best friends and they were sitting down with dinner and they told us that they're going to be moving away before too long to take care of some family members.

01:13:37.524 --> 01:13:43.220
They're about my parents' age and then that came to fruition over the course of the next several months.

01:13:49.850 --> 01:13:53.621
But at another conversation rick asked me about like the idea of taking over the group and also taking over mentorship of a guy who, just like I had been several years ago.

01:13:53.621 --> 01:14:02.494
He was starting to walk with a guy but just started it and he's like, basically, what would you think about taking over mentorship of this man and of the group?

01:14:02.494 --> 01:14:09.588
So this is I'm, it's like four years in and to that point things were not bad, but they were realistically.

01:14:09.588 --> 01:14:11.154
There was plateau in a way.

01:14:11.154 --> 01:14:16.912
There was stagnation in a way of I'm sober, I'm getting better, I'm I'm not doing that the old stuff.

01:14:16.912 --> 01:14:22.530
But there wasn't really growth when it came to recovery and, to be honest, I didn't hesitate.

01:14:22.530 --> 01:14:26.015
It was like, yeah, I got to, and not in a negative way.

01:14:26.015 --> 01:14:27.115
No, of course.

01:14:27.115 --> 01:14:34.225
Like being in battle, like yeah, I can't say no to my commander.

01:14:34.225 --> 01:14:38.935
Yeah, of course I'll take over, like I've got to give back, right.

01:14:38.935 --> 01:14:42.619
And so, yeah, I started to take over the group.

01:14:42.619 --> 01:14:48.855
We took turns leading the group, started mentoring this man, and that was a huge piece.

01:14:48.855 --> 01:14:50.136
I'm so thankful for that.

01:14:51.751 --> 01:14:54.479
It's almost cliche, but the best way to learn is to teach right.

01:14:54.479 --> 01:15:04.880
The best way to grow is to be put in that leadership position, because that took things to a whole nother level, where it's like now I got to really take ownership of my choices.

01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:06.657
Now I got to really take ownership.

01:15:06.657 --> 01:15:09.777
This isn't just about saving my marriage, this isn't just about saving me.

01:15:09.777 --> 01:15:12.550
This is am I a good example to these men, right?

01:15:12.550 --> 01:15:16.198
Am I a good example to this guy that I'm mentoring on an ongoing basis?

01:15:16.198 --> 01:15:19.375
So things were already going well.

01:15:19.375 --> 01:15:22.085
They were already going so much better night and day, right.

01:15:22.085 --> 01:15:26.496
But then God used that transition to just ratchet things up even better.

01:15:26.496 --> 01:15:30.850
And I'm not trying to paint it as, like this, perfect, rosy, everything's perfect, but it has been.

01:15:30.850 --> 01:15:34.220
It's been incredible because it just it cemented my mission.

01:15:34.810 --> 01:15:43.422
For years I was, I would lay in bed, hating myself and literally saying to God why did you create me?

01:15:43.422 --> 01:15:47.779
All I do is hurt people, why the heck would you put me on this earth, when all I do is hurt people?

01:15:47.779 --> 01:15:55.875
And I literally like I was flabbergasted.

01:15:55.875 --> 01:15:56.537
Why did God put me on this earth?

01:15:56.537 --> 01:15:58.667
I'm not trying to sound corny, but I think back to that often because now I get to go.

01:15:58.667 --> 01:16:03.358
Yeah, I know why God put me on this earth to give back in the way that men gave to me, right?

01:16:03.358 --> 01:16:09.132
So, leading the group mentoring men.

01:16:09.132 --> 01:16:24.689
This is just a different branch of that tree, just whatever I can do to put some hope out there so that if there's a guy like me that didn't think that there was hope possible, didn't think there was healing possible, that there is yeah, that's pretty powerful.

01:16:25.498 --> 01:16:26.489
That's pretty powerful, logan.

01:16:26.489 --> 01:16:30.640
I yeah, I think that's the way it should be.

01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:38.481
Do you think that maybe that was the journey?

01:16:38.481 --> 01:16:39.663
Maybe I don't think.

01:16:39.663 --> 01:16:41.230
So I don't think you're at the end point.

01:16:41.230 --> 01:16:46.819
You're 33 but like you had to go through this, you had to go through this.

01:16:46.819 --> 01:17:05.283
You had to go through this hell, as you kept saying, to be able to get where you are so that you can help other people, because obviously someone like I wouldn't know, I couldn't mentor somebody on this because I don't know what it feels like to be there.

01:17:05.283 --> 01:17:12.595
So, in order to get to this point, you've got to know what it feels like so you can mentor people because you can, you could be with them.

01:17:12.595 --> 01:17:22.725
So do you think at some point, someone that is is that that that really takes that Christ in your heart and your soul and this is a big part of your life?

01:17:22.725 --> 01:17:25.067
Do you think that might have been the reason?

01:17:26.190 --> 01:17:41.979
I absolutely do no doubt in my mind so, and I had no idea that spouses had a recovery group as well, but I guess it makes sense.

01:17:41.979 --> 01:17:42.801
What's so?

01:17:42.801 --> 01:17:43.561
Alcoholonomics?

01:17:43.561 --> 01:17:44.344
And then there's a.

01:17:44.344 --> 01:17:49.220
There's another group for loved ones of like alcohol and Right.

01:17:49.220 --> 01:17:50.783
Do you remember what that's called?

01:17:50.970 --> 01:17:53.438
Well, so Al-Anon, al-anon, that's.

01:17:53.438 --> 01:17:54.199
It Is a huge one.

01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:57.600
And yeah, there's different types of groups that might focus on specific segments.

01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:15.247
Right, because there's, on one hand, there's that piece, there's the I'll pull back a little bit, I don't want to speak too much about something that I don't have personal experience in, but right there, there's a lot of focus, usually with codependency, which is a huge thing.

01:18:15.247 --> 01:18:18.914
You are married to or you're the loved one or your family member of an addict, so that not enabling them and being codependent, like that's a huge piece.

01:18:18.914 --> 01:18:26.171
But there's an extra level here where I'm going out and having sex with other women.

01:18:26.171 --> 01:18:32.984
I'm having this whole sexual double life, plus the manipulation, plus the verbal and emotional abuse and everything Right.

01:18:32.984 --> 01:18:41.804
So all of that crap there's, the sexual addiction is fairly marginalized compared to a lot of addictions, I would say.

01:18:42.404 --> 01:18:44.296
Yeah, compared to how big of a problem it is.

01:18:44.296 --> 01:18:47.979
Sexual betrayal trauma is probably even more marginalized.

01:18:47.979 --> 01:18:49.395
She didn't know that there was a group like that.

01:18:49.395 --> 01:18:50.278
Just like you said, you didn't know.

01:18:50.278 --> 01:18:55.395
Most people have no clue that there's resources available for women and there are groups out there.

01:18:55.395 --> 01:18:58.998
There's therapists out there specifically for sexual betrayal trauma.

01:18:58.998 --> 01:19:02.756
Wow, I mean, I had no clue.

01:19:02.756 --> 01:19:06.860
I didn't even know that there was therapists for sexual addiction, let alone for sexual betrayal trauma.

01:19:06.860 --> 01:19:13.796
So there are resources out there and, of course, I don't know what's available in everyone's city and how good that person is or that group is.

01:19:13.796 --> 01:19:15.139
Who knows?

01:19:15.139 --> 01:19:20.637
You got to give it a try and see is there something worth taking from that group or that person.

01:19:20.637 --> 01:19:24.474
But the resources are out there, even though there need to be far more.

01:19:26.216 --> 01:19:42.613
So yeah, so I like I said I didn't know and I was trying to make the comparison I was trying to like, okay, well, we've got, we got Alcoholics Anonymous and we have Al-Anon, we've got you've got sexual addiction recovery and you've got betrayal recovery, and that was where I was trying to make that point.

01:19:42.653 --> 01:19:44.475
But I think what your point was actually more powerful.

01:19:44.475 --> 01:20:19.523
But, yeah, I think this is pretty amazing that, first of all, we brought to light tonight, just first of all for people that don't really understand that there is something called sexual addiction out there and what it might look like, you were able to tell us what this might look like, you know what, and I got to give it to your wife because she recognized that this was a disease, this was an addiction, a mental affliction, and continued to love you, whether it be for survival or not.

01:20:19.523 --> 01:20:23.856
Right, she stuck around, which there's more than enough people out there.

01:20:23.856 --> 01:20:38.895
We've got a 30% divorce rate in this country as it is, and obviously there's a high percentage of that is due to infidelity, but actually most of it's got either to do it's got to do with personality or finances.

01:20:38.895 --> 01:20:39.858
Most.

01:20:39.858 --> 01:20:42.484
Those are the two that actually are the biggest ones.

01:20:42.911 --> 01:20:43.171
It's not.

01:20:43.171 --> 01:20:46.421
Basically, we can't get along whatever, however, that manifests Right.

01:20:47.029 --> 01:20:48.592
Yeah, and my biggest thing is that.

01:20:48.592 --> 01:21:09.853
So I know through my own relationships that we have this cycles, right, and people and I believe we've come to a point in, in and this is about marriage, it's not about sexual addiction, but it's about marriage that we're at this point where the first sign of trouble people are like okay, forget it, call it, quits, right, instead of going going.

01:21:09.853 --> 01:21:10.234
You know what?

01:21:10.234 --> 01:21:19.671
There's going to be times in a long relationship that you're going to be massively in love with your partner and then there's going to be times where you're going to be like I love my partner.

01:21:21.573 --> 01:21:38.690
I probably at this point in time, in this moment here, I probably am not in love with her, but I'm in love with her or him for back, back and forth, right, but then that that that will cycle again and you'll cycle back up and things will change and all of a sudden something will happen and all of a sudden you're in love with them again.

01:21:38.690 --> 01:21:42.181
You know what I mean, and people aren't doing that.

01:21:42.181 --> 01:21:42.923
Now.

01:21:42.923 --> 01:21:48.235
When you add something like sexual addition to the fact into that match, that just makes things harder.

01:21:48.235 --> 01:21:49.256
And I've got a.

01:21:49.256 --> 01:22:02.921
So I think carrie's a saint and that she was able to see through it and go no, it's not that he doesn't love me, it's the fact that he's got something going on and we just need to figure out a way to get through it I'll be super quick for for time's sake, but it just I.

01:22:03.021 --> 01:22:05.975
I do want to make these couple qualifiers like number one.

01:22:05.975 --> 01:22:07.600
And she would tell you she didn't.

01:22:07.600 --> 01:22:12.130
She definitely didn't realize that at the time, until getting into recovery, that it wasn't about her.

01:22:12.130 --> 01:22:22.698
She, the whole time she thought she needed to be sexier, she thought she needed to be better in some way, which again is like the abuse and and all of that.

01:22:22.698 --> 01:22:26.024
You know, she, she, yeah, she, this was.

01:22:26.024 --> 01:22:27.252
It was a double thing, right?

01:22:27.252 --> 01:22:29.841
So part of recovery was that was learning.

01:22:29.841 --> 01:22:38.456
It wasn't not excusing things, but it wasn't about her, it wasn't me, because not loving her enough or not liking her, and I've had nothing to do with her.

01:22:39.337 --> 01:22:45.220
I started off sharing my story, talking about how I trained myself to chase after new and different and more.

01:22:45.220 --> 01:22:48.920
Well, that's, those are things that a human being cannot be right.

01:22:48.920 --> 01:22:52.240
A human being cannot be I mean a little bit.

01:22:52.240 --> 01:22:54.698
It can't be a new and different and more person, right?

01:22:54.698 --> 01:23:00.336
Porn affairs all of that was creating this monster that she could never compete with.

01:23:01.270 --> 01:23:04.396
And then the other piece is I don't want people to get divorced.

01:23:04.396 --> 01:23:11.481
Carrie doesn't want people to get divorced, but we do absolutely accept in this arena, even from a Christian perspective their sexual infidelity.

01:23:11.481 --> 01:23:16.289
If their sexual infidelity and the wife's like I can't deal with that, we get it Like absolutely.

01:23:16.289 --> 01:23:23.375
Her job with her women is not to save their marriage, it's to help that woman protect herself and her family.

01:23:23.375 --> 01:23:27.787
Hopefully, we would love to see both parties jump into recovery.

01:23:27.787 --> 01:23:34.382
They jump into healthy living and and there's able to be reconciliation, and most times that is the case by god's grace.

01:23:34.382 --> 01:23:39.381
But we totally understand that obviously I shouldn't be married to her.

01:23:39.381 --> 01:23:41.393
Still I shouldn't be able to come home to my kids.

01:23:41.854 --> 01:24:14.204
And then just I'll say that this last piece and this connects with what you just said about relationships and marriage, speaking for myself, and this is prescriptive, or sorry, this is descriptive, it's not prescriptive, but anyone out there who's had anything similar to me can hopefully take something from this, which is when I get in an argument with Carrie, when I have a bad day, when maybe Carrie is short with me or she does something that I'm like I don't love that.

01:24:14.204 --> 01:24:15.206
You said that or did that.

01:24:15.206 --> 01:24:16.511
I'll tell you what.

01:24:16.511 --> 01:24:30.662
Life's not easy, but I have a huge cheat code, which is this I run things through this filter of okay, I want to be mad at her.

01:24:30.662 --> 01:24:32.738
I want to argue with her, I want to do this, that and the other.

01:24:35.211 --> 01:24:40.462
I could have and should have thrown away my marriage for years of cheating on her.

01:24:40.462 --> 01:24:47.333
God gave me my family back, so how much of a freaking fool would I have to be to carry resentment towards her and let that poison our marriage?

01:24:47.333 --> 01:24:48.957
How much of a freaking fool would I have to be to carry resentment towards her and let that poison our marriage?

01:24:48.957 --> 01:24:58.300
How much of a fool would I have to be to get pissed at her because I didn't like what she made for dinner or because of how she packed our bags for vacation?

01:24:58.300 --> 01:25:14.422
So I'm not saying that I don't ever get short with her, but it does help a lot because I get to reflect back and like, yeah, I'm not about to let something that petty ruin what God has given me that I totally don't deserve to even have anymore.

01:25:15.283 --> 01:25:25.662
Yes, that is well said and I think that It'd be taken with any relationship, not just one that's had gone through the trials and tribulations that yours had.

01:25:25.662 --> 01:25:32.779
I think that could be done with any relationship just to the gratification not the gratification, the gratefulness that you've got to have that partner in your life.

01:25:32.779 --> 01:25:37.289
Yeah, so that is, uh, that's fantastic.

01:25:37.289 --> 01:25:43.944
So you had mentioned prior to us started recording that you do a lot of Instagram.

01:25:43.944 --> 01:25:47.478
You're pretty active on Instagram and you're on.

01:25:47.478 --> 01:25:51.936
Most of your content is geared toward this right Helping others going through sexual addiction.

01:25:51.936 --> 01:25:52.600
That's correct, right.

01:25:53.210 --> 01:25:53.390
Yeah.

01:25:53.390 --> 01:26:03.194
So if you follow me at no longer in bondage and there's periods in between the words no longer in bondage and I'll give you the hand links if you want to put them in the show notes.

01:26:03.194 --> 01:26:08.344
I put out quite a few videos a day and it's geared specifically towards sexual addiction recovery.

01:26:08.344 --> 01:26:11.605
A lot of it's going to be applicable, even if it's not necessarily sexual addiction.

01:26:11.605 --> 01:26:14.948
Right, if it's getting healthier with my choices, even if it's not necessarily addiction.

01:26:15.087 --> 01:26:32.895
Getting healthier with my choices the stakes were pretty darn high with me with sexual addiction but ultimately getting healthier with my habits, getting healthier with my mindset, re rewiring my brain and also even some of the stuff that's specific for sexual addiction it's geared to.

01:26:32.895 --> 01:26:39.475
I'm doing it, I'm putting my time and energy into it because I want to reach men that were in my shoes.

01:26:39.475 --> 01:26:52.079
But if you're a loved one, if you're a spouse or you're a dad, or you're a pastor or you're a friend, I promise you this If you don't struggle like good, you have a lot of people in your life that do.

01:26:52.079 --> 01:26:53.524
The stats bear that out.

01:26:53.524 --> 01:26:58.359
So for anybody that would like to understand more about this, check it out.

01:26:58.359 --> 01:27:00.511
I would encourage you to check it out.

01:27:00.511 --> 01:27:06.963
It's completely focused on helping bring awareness and healing in this specific subject.

01:27:07.630 --> 01:27:14.399
Perfect and if you've got any specific questions you could slide into his DMs, Yep and yeah, you can.

01:27:14.519 --> 01:27:15.119
Yeah, absolutely.

01:27:15.119 --> 01:27:18.663
Ask me a question If you're, if you're somebody that you're at your wits end.

01:27:18.663 --> 01:27:24.716
You're like I got no clue what to do and I'm yeah, I'm living over here in Australia and I'm never going to see Logan face to face.

01:27:24.716 --> 01:27:26.698
Okay, like we can jump on a zoom call.

01:27:26.698 --> 01:27:28.841
You're, we can stay inside, we jump on a phone call.

01:27:28.841 --> 01:27:32.671
I don't do this for a living, but this is my life, this is my passion.

01:27:32.671 --> 01:27:38.775
So, whatever I can do to help point you in the right direction or pointing to a resource, let's, we can do that.

01:27:39.690 --> 01:27:42.738
And you said prodigals is nationwide.

01:27:43.881 --> 01:27:44.802
It's nationwide.

01:27:44.802 --> 01:27:46.554
You can hear my tone of voice.

01:27:46.554 --> 01:27:48.619
Every group is created differently, right?

01:27:48.619 --> 01:27:57.493
So I don't know what you would get if you went to one in Tacoma or San Diego, but the organization prodigals is nationwide.

01:27:57.493 --> 01:27:59.319
Aa or celebrate recovery.

01:27:59.319 --> 01:28:00.601
There's groups all over.

01:28:02.789 --> 01:28:11.423
Yeah, so I just wanted to put that out there, because the one oh, here it is, so the one that starts it all where you can find other places.

01:28:11.423 --> 01:28:19.359
It looks like it's called prodigals international, um, prodigals internationalorg, and it looks like you can find all the other places where they.

01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:44.993
It's like all the other places where they're available, so like the one that I'll link to, just because that's where Logan is prodigals of Alaskacom, but it looks like where you can start at prodigalsinternationalorg, which I'll also link that into the show notes along with Logan's Instagram and so that you can see the videos and if you want to ask him some questions and we'll go from there.

01:28:44.993 --> 01:28:47.297
So, yeah, logan, thank you.

01:28:47.297 --> 01:28:57.296
That was, it was an super honest conversation, which that's gotta be pretty difficult, so thank you for that.

01:28:57.296 --> 01:29:01.195
I think that was an honor for all of us, so really appreciate that.

01:29:02.730 --> 01:29:03.997
Well, I'm not just saying this.

01:29:03.997 --> 01:29:10.600
I'm extremely grateful for the opportunity to come on and talk, cause a lot of folks don't necessarily want to delve into this.

01:29:10.600 --> 01:29:18.759
They don't necessarily want an episode titled sexual addiction and I get it Like that's fine, but I'm thankful for every opportunity I get to shout from the rooftops.

01:29:19.761 --> 01:29:21.395
Yeah, and thank you again very much.

01:29:21.395 --> 01:29:25.153
So so, for the rest of you, like I said, check out the show notes.

01:29:25.153 --> 01:29:29.443
If you need to get a hold of logan we taught you, we talked to you how to do that just jump into his dms.

01:29:29.443 --> 01:29:38.131
On instagram, you can check out prodigals international and if you like this episode, go ahead and share it with maybe somebody that might need this information.

01:29:38.131 --> 01:29:42.911
Also, if you want to leave a review and a like on all that stuff, that would be great too.

01:29:42.911 --> 01:29:43.712
So we appreciate it.

01:29:43.712 --> 01:29:47.363
Other than that, we will see you in the next one.

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