Overcoming Depression and Writing with Purpose – Cathlelina Duvert’s Journey

Brad Minus: [00:00:00] And welcome back to another episode of Life Changing Challengers. I have the distinct honor of having author and blogger Cathelina Duvert on with us today. She has written a novel called The Box. But anyway, Cathelina, how are you? 

Cathelina Duvert: I'm good. Thank you so much, Brad.

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me. 

Brad Minus: Oh, you are so welcome and thank you for participating and coming on the show. I really appreciate it. So, Cathlelina, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood, maybe what was the complement of your family, where you grew up, and maybe tell us a little bit about what Cathlelina was like as a kid.

Cathelina Duvert: Okay, sure. No problem. So, I come from a Haitian family. My parents were from Haiti, or yeah, were from Haiti, and we were, and so there was, and there was three of us, my brother, who's older, about by three years, and I have a twin sister, and we grew up in [00:01:00] Queens, New York, born in Brooklyn, raised in Queens, and, yeah, our family life was mostly, a Haitian household, a typical Haitian household, but when we went to school, it was more about learning English and the American way of life.

So I kind of consider myself like an Americanized, Haitian, Haitian American. But we were very, very close with our cousins. My mother was very close to her siblings, so every weekend they would all hang out and of course we would hang out by default. And it was like always a big party.

We just fell in love with our cousins. 

Brad Minus: And did they live near you in Queens? 

Cathelina Duvert: There was one set of cousins who did live like about 20 minutes away. And there was another set of cousins, two other sets of cousins that lived all the way upstate. It took about an hour to get there and it was always a treat when we would go up there.

Brad Minus: Nice. Yeah. I love upstate New York. I think it's frigging gorgeous. So as far as you acclimating into the American way of life, what can you give us [00:02:00] a, like a quick difference on what, what you noticed as far as maybe your friends that were, that were born here, and raised American versus, versus a Haitian household?

Cathelina Duvert: Well, for one thing, we weren't allowed to wear sneakers all the time. My mom. Okay, let me scratch that. There was certain ways that we would dress in certain ways that we would behave that my mother was very, specific about us not being like any other typical American.

We had to respect our elders and I remember, feeling like We were separate from other kids in that we didn't talk back to our parents. We did what our parents told us to do. We were never rude to adults. Things of that nature. It was just the way that we behave that I felt like was different than other American kids that we grew up with.

Brad Minus: I grew up that way. Now I'm a little older than you, but yes, no, you wouldn't catch me. Like these kids today talking back to their [00:03:00] parents. Oh my God. I wouldn't think about it. So I am going to, I'll make the assumption that, when you say that you dressed a certain way, it was probably very conservative.

Cathelina Duvert: It was conservative and it was never what the in style was, what was trendy, never really anything like that. Like I said, with the sneakers thing, even like my mom would buy us 5 sneakers and we had to be okay with it. Meanwhile, all the other kids were rocking the Nike sneakers and, you know, the Air Jordans and all that stuff.

And it was fine. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, same way, same way. I'm telling you, until high school, it was like I would get up and get dressed and my parents would let me know. They're like No, no, no. Today, you wear the brown shoes. No. All right. Today, you can wear your sneakers. You know, it was kind of the same thing.

So I get that. I totally get that. Did you find that it caused you a little bit of maybe teasing or something? As far as your dress goes and, and that because you were so different? [00:04:00] 

Cathelina Duvert: No, not necessarily. Because because we did go to a Catholic school where, where uniform was required. Okay. So, and we went to Catholic school from kindergarten to 12th grade.

And so I didn't really feel like that was on a daily basis, but when it came to like going to parties and stuff like that, that became an issue because I never knew what to wear. I don't really have much of a fashion sense like my sister does. And, I was always like really upset in the corner.

Like, I don't like what I'm wearing, but I couldn't change it because I didn't have anything better in my closet and everybody else looked really nice. But I just looked frumpy. I thought, you know, 

Brad Minus: Decent, like a good lesson nowadays versus back then when everybody was doing all this, and we really find out nowadays that that really didn't matter.

You know, back then it mattered. Right now it really doesn't. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah. I think about it often and I think about the way that I am now. Even till this day I realize that, I wish I had better things in my closet, but I don't, and I make do with what I have just like back in the days, 

we were okay. I mean, you [00:05:00] didn't look cute a certain way. You were still fine. 

Brad Minus: So did you, let's, did you do any like extracurriculars or anything while you were in school? 

Cathelina Duvert: No, I was never interested in that. My sister was always into track and she liked to do other things. She was always more outgoing than I was and I never liked to do anything with anybody.

I had social anxiety and, I just never wanted to do anything like that. 

Brad Minus: What did you find that you were doing? Like you would come home from school, you know, and most people are going off to track practice or they're going to some sort of extracurricular. What did you end up doing?

Cathelina Duvert: Homework. 

Brad Minus: You were digging into your studies. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah. That's what I remember doing. I don't remember anything else. 

Brad Minus: Okay. Well, that's fine. And there's plenty of people that did that. And obviously, you know, you're successful.

So what about, did you go to college afterwards? 

Cathelina Duvert: Yes. Went to Hofstra University for my undergrad. Oh, Hofstra. Yeah. Yeah, and I have a very interesting story about that [00:06:00] too. Actually, I was telling, I'm a teacher now, and I tell my students, I told my students this just yesterday that, when I was applying to go to Hofstra, my guidance counselor now, I was like, I was a very average student.

Maybe if, if I got an 80 on an exam or something, it was like, Oh my gosh, time to celebrate. I was very average. And, when I applied to Hofstra University, my guidance counselor had told me, well, you know, with your grades, you won't get into a school like that. She said, you might as well, might as well just apply to maybe a two year college and maybe after that, maybe.

You'll find maybe you can apply to a school like Hofstra, but you know, so I remember thinking well, man that really sucks and my older cousin was like how dare you guidance counselor Tell you something like that. You should apply anyway, so I did I applied anyway And I did end up getting in and when I told my guidance counselor that I was accepted.

She was just like I Know [00:07:00] congratulations. I was wrong, but she was just like Well, I didn't expect that, but yeah, 

Brad Minus: Did anything, as far as you being a student when you went to Hofstra, did anything change there? Was it still kind of, you were on that average block or did you figure out a way that you actually excelled?

Cathelina Duvert: I figured out a way to excel. That's what I'm talking about. Yes, that was the first time in my life that I got straight A's. In all my classes. And I think it was just the fact that I was accepted. It was my proud moment that I could, up the game for myself.

And I found different ways to study and I did it. I did it. I, I was really, and in fact, I remember I handed in. Paper for my social studies class and I never liked social studies, but I always did the best that I could and my social studies teacher wrote a note at the end of my paper.

I got an A on it and he wrote a note saying I was very impressed with the way that you wrote. I had to look up to see what year you are and I'm very surprised that you're a freshman and you could do well to tutor some of our juniors and seniors. So I [00:08:00] was pretty proud 

Brad Minus: All right, for everybody out there, and since we're talking to an author here, that's called foreshadowing.

Cathelina Duvert: I know, 

Brad Minus: yeah, actually, you know what, I was a little bit even later of a bloomer, but I was the same way you were. I was, I would A's and B's and C's and stuff in high school. When I got to my first year of college, I almost flunked out to tell you the truth because I learned how to party and I ended up leaving school and I spent a couple years working.

I did a couple of, community college classes and then I went back to the same school and then I ended up leaving Illinois State University with a 3. 

Brad Minus: But that was it, right? You found that maturity. Your freshman year took me a little bit longer, but then I went to grad school like you did and Knocked it out of the park.

There was a reason for that though. Did you study education in Hofstra? 

Cathelina Duvert: No, I didn't. My major was creative writing and literature I was going to be a world famous author Traveled the [00:09:00] world speaking engagements. I was gonna be the whole thing But that didn't happen. When I did graduate, I got a job at a publishing company in the Bronx and then, I worked at a publishing company in Manhattan. I was working in publishing for maybe about 12 years or so, then that's when I decided to become a teacher. 

Brad Minus: Wait, so you were working in publishing, you were in the, in the industry that you wanted to be in.

You were in the creative writing industry. Okay, maybe you didn't write anything as of yet. But you were in the industry, so you can have all these insights, right? And then you decided to leave to become a teacher. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Can you share why that was? 

Cathelina Duvert: Well, yeah. At the time I was writing a novel, a novel that I didn't even do anything with anymore, I, put it in the drawer, but I had a really great time at the company.

That I worked for. I really liked everybody that I worked with. I like my boss and all that stuff, but after a while, my [00:10:00] father passed away and I started thinking about life and I'm like, there's got to be more to life than this. I started thinking that I needed to use my energy elsewhere.

I felt the calling to become a teacher and that's what did it. 

Brad Minus: Okay. There's nothing wrong with that was a good answer. Yeah, because usually you're, you're, you, you get things like, well, the industry was this. It wasn't what I thought it was going to be. So I decided to take the easy route out and do something else and blah, blah, blah.

And no, that's a great fricking answer. That doesn't usually, that usually doesn't happen. So that's great. You just felt like there's this calling and, and what, you're, are you in what grade? Yeah. 

Cathelina Duvert: I teach 7th graders and 9th graders. 

Brad Minus: Okay, so like middle school, freshman year of high school. Awesome, awesome. So, so you must be in a school that is kind of like the school that you, that you went to, where is it like every single grade or is it 7th through 12th? 

Cathelina Duvert: It's a 6th through 12th school. 

Brad Minus: 6th through 12th. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Okay. All right, nice. [00:11:00] And then you get a little bit of both, right?

You get a little bit of that high school stuff and you get a little bit of the middle school, so you get, a very variety of kids, I bet. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah, it's interesting. The seventh graders are, I feel, they're so energetic, they're full of life, they're annoying, but it's great to be in their presence on a daily basis.

And the ninth graders, I find that they're really quiet, they're more shy or, not willing to speak up in class, which is very interesting, but that's what I found with my ninth graders this year. 

Brad Minus: Interesting. So the freshmen are freaked out about probably about, if they say something, they're feeling like if they say something stupid, 

Cathelina Duvert: they're going to 

Brad Minus: embarrass themselves in front of their peers.

Cathelina Duvert: They just don't care yet. They're just like, they say whatever, literally they say whatever comes out of their mouth. And it's like, are you serious? Are you kidding me right now? 

Brad Minus: Wow. Okay. So you became a teacher. You had spent 12 years in publishing.

I know that you're, from what I've learned about you and a little bit of research that I've done, there was some [00:12:00] issues with depression. Where did, where did that come in? Because right now it sounds like you like we're living the life. 

Cathelina Duvert: No, I, I, I was in the dark for a very long time. My depression started around when I was 11 or 12 years old, but, I had not known I was depressed yet.

Whatever I was feeling, I just felt like, I felt like there was something wrong with me. I didn't understand what I was going through. I didn't talk to anyone about it. I kept it to myself because, well, it was just weird. I was just this weird kid who didn't like to go to parties, who didn't like people, who didn't like to do things.

And I was always crying. I was upset. I was angry. Yeah, so I kept it to myself and, and I hid it. I hid it behind smiles. I hid it behind work. I hid it behind, anything that I could because nobody knew what I was going through except my sister because she lives with me, you know? And it wasn't until I was in my mid twenties that I realized that I was suffering with depression.

[00:13:00] And, that's when I started writing my novel that, really helped me. To look at what I was going through in a new light, if you will. So I started writing the novel because I didn't understand what I was going through. So I wanted to write something about a woman who was going through the same issues as I was.

That's what I called it at the time, issues, because I didn't know what it was. So when I was, diagnosed with depression, I was like, okay, that's what my main character's going through. And so I was able to use. My feelings of depression, my experience with depression and put it in and give it all to my main character To see what she would do with it.

And what came from it was a what I felt was a very interesting, heartwarming, very powerful story. But, in the meantime, so when I was about 25 years old, I, when I was diagnosed with depression, I started talking to a therapist and I was [00:14:00] also prescribed, I'm gonna say Zoloft, I was prescribed Zoloft.

And for a minute it was helping me and I was, and I was very proud of the fact that I was taking these happy pills, you know, that's what I like to call them. And then that was my, let me see, and then I left, that's when I left my job, as in publishing. And because I left my job and I didn't, I wasn't a teacher just yet, I didn't have insurance.

So I couldn't continue with the therapy and I could not continue with the medication. So, when I finally did get a job as a teacher, I, it was a few years later when I finally got a job as a teacher and I had, insurance again, but I was feeling kind of okay, so I didn't feel the need to go back to therapy.

I don't know what happened. I don't know how I broke down. I don't know what caused it. But then at some point I was like. I need to go back. I need to go back to therapy. And when I went back to therapy, I had a new therapist [00:15:00] and she never mentioned anything about prescription drugs, about medication.

And so I was like, okay, maybe I'm going to try it without the medication. 

Brad Minus: Yes. 

Cathelina Duvert: So while I was doing talk therapy, which I believe in 100%, I was also in communication with Two of my cousins and my sister, we would all challenge each other.

We challenge each other to exercise regularly. We challenge each other to do meditations every day. We challenge each other to listen to motivational videos and read self-help books. And we would pick one book. It was Morning Minutes by Hal Elrod.

Brad Minus: Yes. 

Cathelina Duvert: We chose that book to read together and then we incorporated all the strategies that he mentioned in the book and we would get together every week and talk about it. And little by little, I realized that the talk therapy, the meditations, the motivational videos, the morning minutes, all of those combined [00:16:00] together helped me, 

deal with depression. 

Brad Minus: So did you end up back on medication? 

Cathelina Duvert: No, I haven't been on medication since. 

Brad Minus: That's huge. Because you know, in today's society where, the pharmaceutical industry is getting rich off of, anti anxiety and drugs for depression. It's ridiculous the amount of money.

So the fact that you were able to come in and say, okay, with a combination of these strategies, you were able to stay off of pharmaceuticals.

Cathelina Duvert: You, these, I feel that way too. Now, I'm not going to discount medication because I believe there's a place for it, right? And there are some people who may not be willing just yet to do all these, to incorporate all these strategies into their daily lives. Now, this was something I was doing every single day, every day.

The morning minute [00:17:00] is about waking up earlier in order to incorporate these into your day. And that's what I did. I already woke up like, I think, five o'clock in the morning to get to work. So in order to incorporate this, I was getting up at four o'clock in the morning. So I was committed to it.

I was invested in it. I really wanted to try this, especially since I was doing it with other people. So it was a small community of us doing it. It wasn't like I was doing this on my own. So I had that help. I had that support. And so I want to say that it's so important to do what you can, but you need that level of support, even if it's just one person.

Brad Minus: So find strategies that work and then your support will keep you in those strategies because I find that, you know, cause I'm, I'm an endurance coach, so I keep my, my, my clients, I, I help them go through, you know, get to the finish line of marathons and ultra marathons and [00:18:00] iron man, parathelons, and all this crazy stuff that most people think are just, they're crazy for him doing, I helped them get through that.

And a lot of them, hit goals on the way. Yeah. To the finish line. A lot of them are first timers and they decide that they're going to do this race and some of them in the midst of it, they're like, Oh, I'd like to lose some weight. I'd like to get a little toner.

A lot of them, it is a mental thing as well. The ability to hit this challenge really helps the mentality, but the training. The fact that they get up every morning and just like you, most of them, especially out here in Florida, it's, they're going to train and train well, and they're going to train outside.

They need to get up early and do it then. And I've found a lot of them have gotten through some major life issues and a couple of them through some depressive depression, incidents in their life by continuing to train on the, you know, as far as, Moving their body and it being physical, just like you were saying, meditation.

[00:19:00] Mm-hmm . You know, your morning, your your morning routine, which Hal Lro actually coined the phrase. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: yeah, yeah. So, and it's, so that's the biggest thing right now. It's huge trend. You'll actually find it on, on Twitter and or x and it'll say the trend for the day, the trending thing, morning routine.

And he coined the phrase, so you're in good company by starting that book. I totally believe it, but that's how, as far as coaching goes, I can tell them what to do. I can get them to their goals, but they got to follow the plan. 

Cathelina Duvert: Them following 

Brad Minus: the plan and doing their notes and then circling back with me.

That's their support line, right? 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah, it's in the journey. 

Brad Minus: Are you still doing the morning routine every morning? 

Cathelina Duvert: So no, I'm not. But, I've incorporated them. I don't do them all, right? I've incorporated Some of them. Like the meditation I started doing again. The motivational.

Well, I still read the self help books. I listen, I listen to self help books now and actually, Oh, you know what? Actually, I'm [00:20:00] listening to now is a book called the body keeps the score about how we hold trauma in our bodies. And it was just talking about, I just finished the chapter on how, there's a, there's, there's so much research on how medication helps depressive.

Yeah. But there's very little research on how, other alternatives can help people with depression that, that, that choose, or that don't take medication. So I found that very, very interesting. But I do do the self help books and now writing, I believe is like my, it's, it's, it's, it's my, it's what helps me survive.

Right? So I've written this book and I started blogging about, about my, my depression and how I've overcome it and things that I've done to overcome it, which I'm going to put it all together because the, the blog that I created was called Kathy's cross of the process, positive perspective, and [00:21:00] I'm going to put that all into a book and create a journal out of it.

I have these great ideas for it, but I feel like writing is one of those things that has helped me. When I stopped doing the daily meditations and the affirmations and all that stuff, I've switched one thing for another and I feel like it's still helping me and don't get me wrong. I have not cured this thing, I'm not cured, but it has helped me deal with my most depressing stages, 

Brad Minus: that's amazing, but it's still a strategy.

That's the whole thing before you had a strategy where you did your Meditations and stuff now you're doing meditations and you're writing so it's just swapping one strategy for another now The nice thing is because you're blogging not only are you releasing it is what I'm starting to and this is all taking in what you're telling me and kind of like spitting it back out a little bit differently, what you just said about how your body holds your depression, 

Cathelina Duvert: right?

Brad Minus: And it's like in buried [00:22:00] in the cells. And I believe that my people, my, the people on my roster, they sweat it out literally. And I can tell you stories about some of my clients who have done a hundred mile races. Yeah. And, you know, running 100 miles and at mile 75 or 80, they just break down and they just cry.

And it's because their body is so exhausted that they release all of that, you know? And at 80 miles, you know, you've been on the road for like 25 hours, 26 hours you've been running. And now at that point, it's just so exhausted that it just, it releases it. And a lot of them get spooked because he's, these are emotions that are just coming out and they don't understand it, but when they're done, they feel like this sense of relief that is beyond it.

anything they've ever felt before in their life. You have this relief of, you pay that last credit card statement bill, right? You pay off your house, you get that [00:23:00] relief, they say it's like 100 to 150 times better feeling than that, because it's really this release of everything they've been holding on to.

So I get it. You're releasing it every day. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah, exactly. And I've even written about how I release it onto the page. I keep it trapped on the page so that it no longer torments me, you know, and I think it's so important when people ask me, well, what would you recommend to some people who are feeling this way?

And I say, first of all, you know, I'm no expert. I'm only an expert with what worked with me, but I really feel like if you choose your passion, find your passion, whatever it is, and just like pour yourself into it and then you'll feel that relief. You will feel that relief. I really believe in that.

Brad Minus: So as far as your passion goes now, are you going to therapy still? 

Cathelina Duvert: No. And only because the therapist that I had for seven years, who was really, really good for me, she no longer takes my insurance. And believe it or not, I've had a hard time finding another therapist, because a lot of therapy right now, it's [00:24:00] like texting or emailing and I'm like.

No, I want to speak one on one with someone. So it's really weird. I'm having a hard time finding a new therapist, but, I do want to continue therapy. I feel like at this point in my life right now I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and I need to talk it out 

Brad Minus: And that was kind of where I was getting to I just wanted to make sure that if you know All right, you don't have a therapist a moment, but you're looking for one It's not like you wanted to stop That was where I wanted to go from there because I think it's a good thing for Everybody 

Cathelina Duvert: I don't 

Brad Minus: even think I don't think you need to be depressed to have a therapist I don't think that you, I don't think that you need to, you know, I think you could be 100 percent right with the world and feel like you're the happiest person on earth and you're still going to get something out of it.

Cathelina Duvert: 100 percent agree with you. 

Brad Minus: So yeah, and that's kind of the, that's kind of where I wanted to go with that. And you, and you answered exactly how I thought you would. So that's great. That's fantastic. But I liked the combination of it. Right? Yeah. So, so here's, so you're, you're blogging, but I love about it too, is that you're also helping other people.

Right? 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: Well, and of course, you guys got to check [00:25:00] out her Instagram and we'll talk about that towards the end of the show. But in her Instagram, she does these great little monologues where she talks about her day and then she gives her her lesson for that day.

To you. And it's really, really powerful. So you need to check out her Instagram. And her Instagram is, at Cathlelina Duvert. And you'll, we'll put that in the, in the show notes for you, but you definitely need to see that. Also I, the, your outfit at your, at your, at your launch. 

Cathelina Duvert: That's awesome. 

Brad Minus: I mean, it was this whole like seventies thing, but Yeah. At least what it was look like. 

Cathelina Duvert: Be. It was actually on Halloween. Oh yeah, it was Halloween and I was at a fair a flea market type of thing, and they were like, feel free to dress in costume.

I was like, Hey, why not? I love stuff like that. I love dressing in costume. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, because, no, I saw it. I was like. It looked like it looked like a little bit like a launch because you found your poster and you're [00:26:00] sitting next to your poster for your book and I was like, Oh, that's really cool. That's what a great way to launch the book.

But actually, it actually was a few months afterwards. Okay. No, that's, that's, that's great. So because you launched like, what is July 2nd? 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. So fantastic. Right before the 4th of July, you can, you've got, you've got a date to be thinking about it. The book is called the box and I've read the first few chapters and the writing is your, your teachers when you were, when you're in creative writing, they were absolutely 100 percent true.

The writing will like, I unfortunately was not at that point where I was able to get into it at that point in time I was trying to just, I was trying to do enough research so that I can make this presentation and present you to the world. So I got enough in but I gotta tell you, I, there's, I'm going to finish it because I want to finish it.

You know, there's nothing even better. But some of the dialogue and [00:27:00] the adjectives, 

Cathelina Duvert: the 

Brad Minus: description, but it's, it's the environment that you create, there is an aura that you just, you're delving into Mia. Mia has got, you know, some issues, but she understands and you start to be, even though you're writing it because you wrote it in the third person, you still feel like you could feel what Mia's feeling.

Cathelina Duvert: Right, 

Brad Minus: but you kind of get into it. And that's only in the first few chapters. 

Cathelina Duvert: So I 

Brad Minus: can imagine what the rest of it's like. It's 310 pages and your chapters are kind of short.

So obviously I didn't read a ton of it. I thank you and I'm going to, and I will put a, a, I will put a review on Amazon. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: well, absolutely. A hundred percent. This is what I do. Right. And you said that you started that early.

So that's like 10, 12, what, 15 years in the making. 

Cathelina Duvert: So no, it's not. Okay. So. It, I started it when I was about 25 years old, [00:28:00] and it took me 25 years to publish it. So, I know, I know, I know. I, I don't look like I'm 50,

Brad Minus: but I am. Ladies and gentlemen, do you think this woman's 50? Do you think this woman's 50? Do you have any reason to 50? I don't think so. I think she's, I think she's trying to pull one over 

Cathelina Duvert: on us. I owe it to my parents. They had good genes. So, I 

Brad Minus: would have never 

Cathelina Duvert: I just celebrated my 50th birthday.

Yeah, in July, July 30th. 

Brad Minus: Alright, well that's fantastic. Yeah, no, I'm a, I'm two weeks from celebrating 54.

Yeah, we're in, we're, we're over the hill there, 

Cathelina Duvert: but 

Brad Minus: we're accelerating into greatness. 

Cathelina Duvert: Oh, there you go. I really felt like it was important that when I first wrote it, I wanted to publish it all the way back then. But mind you, it took me years to really get into it because, like I'm a teacher and every summer [00:29:00] I do have time to work on it.

But what was I doing in the summers? I was busy being depressed. I couldn't look at it. I couldn't get up. Maybe because it was too close to what I was feeling. But I picked it up again about eight years ago and I looked at it and I was like, I have to bring this out into the world.

And it was about eight years ago when I really started being serious about it again. And I had two editors look through it. I had beta readers. I wanted this to be the best book that it could be. And I didn't want to, I wanted to get an agent and get it traditionally published. But I felt like, you know, it's going to take a long time again because it could take me like, Two years to get an agent and then another two years to get it published and I was like, that'll be like well until I'm 55 or something so I was like, you know what, let me just self publish it.

Let me just bring it out into the world. It's more important that at least a few people read it than nobody reads it, 

Brad Minus: well, I congratulate you on it because it's a wonderful, wonderful book so far. And I believe there's no reason for it not to continue and just get [00:30:00] better as it goes through.

Cause you mentioned that you had started writing, didn't you say you started writing stuff like when you were 11? 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Book that's in the drawer? 

Cathelina Duvert: No, the book that's in the drawer, I wrote it, through my college years. And right after, when I gave that up, I think I spent maybe five years on it and I was just like, Oh, I'm not really interested in that anymore.

That's when I really wanted to write something that was meaningful for me. The other book that I started was meaningful, but wanted something more personal. And that's when I started writing the box. 

Brad Minus: So any chance that you'll finish them?

Cathelina Duvert: I don't think so. I'm done with them. But you know what's interesting? I went into my storage unit a couple of months ago so I could find something and I discovered like a bunch of poems and short stories that I wrote that was describing my, my depression. And I was just like, Oh my gosh, I didn't even remember writing these, you know?

And it was just like, it seems like ever since I was younger, I [00:31:00] was always writing. I was writing even before I knew that I loved to write. Isn't that amazing? 

Brad Minus: Yeah. And I get that. I tended to like to write as well. My father sat me down at the age of three and gave me those little tiny books.

Those ones are like this thick and they're like children's books and made me learn how to read. I walked into kindergarten knowing how to read, right. And It's not because I was like gifted because I'm not it was because my dad set me down on the couch And he taught me my ABCs and he made me sound things out.

And so I already had phonetics walking into kindergarten the stories that I've gotten from that time because the kindergarten was part of a Like early development child care type of deal, right? To shut me up the child care professionals, would say, Hey, Brad, and they give me a piece of paper and a pencil and they say, write me a [00:32:00] story. My parents were like, yeah, that's how they got you to shut up sometimes. Or if you were running around like an animal, they would say, Hey, write me a story.

And I wouldn't talk back to my elders. I wouldn't tell them no, because they were the ones in charge. So that's how they got me to shut up. They were just like, Hey, come here, come here, come here. And he would give me this piece of paper.

And you know, it was the piece of paper with the lines that were like this big, and they gave me this big giant pencil and it was like one of those big giant pencils that you can rest on your shoulder as you're writing.

You know, and they say, write me a story and I would write them a story. Now, my handwriting sucked, but, it had a. And my parents told me that it did have a beginning, a middle, and an end. 

Cathelina Duvert: It 

Brad Minus: wasn't just a, oh, Mrs. Potter went to the store, she bought this, and that's it.

You know what I mean? It was a once upon a time, and the end, and there was all the stuff in the middle. And I was like, wow, I'm like, I didn't know, I didn't know it hadn't been me. So, but I, I get it. And now I, now I do podcasts and blogging as well. So [00:33:00] I hear you. Yeah, it was, it's interesting that you brought that up.

Cause I totally forgot all about that. But see what I mean about, you know, you making some comparisons and stuff and this, it just flows. So we get to know a little bit about each other. But I think it's amazing that you have come out of, you know, some things that really cripple people.

And obviously, as you said, you couldn't write your book because the depression was crippling you during the summer. That's a good question. So Also a

Way of keeping you out of depression as well. 

Cathelina Duvert: Oh, definitely. Let me tell you something. I get along great with the other teachers the students are fine We joke around and I feel like because I'm a teacher Everybody expects teachers to have these great adventures during the summer because they have the whole summer off right I didn't want to do that.

I was this person who preferred to stay home. I felt like I needed [00:34:00] to, do things in the summer because this is what everybody was expecting of me. Little did I realize that I was suffering from, a slight case of agoraphobia, the fear of going outside. That was crippling to me as well.

So on top of being depressed, There was, there were times when I was like, okay, today I'm definitely gonna go outside for a walk. And then it comes to the point where I open the door and I'm like, I don't want to go outside. It was to the point one time where I actually called my sister at work and I said, 

I don't know what's wrong with me. I want to leave the apartment, but I can't, I just can't do it. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Cathelina Duvert: I never really did. I, So one of the things that I, one of the things that I did do was I tried to trick myself into having a reason to go out. Because if I had a reason to go to the mall or a reason to go to the store, I'm fine.

I'm okay with that. But just to go outside, just to just walk around or do nothing, just to walk [00:35:00] at the park, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Yeah. And even till this day, I don't really do these things on my own but now I have other things to occupy my time like on days off, like I could stay inside all day long writing and I'm fine, even if it's a gorgeous day outside, I'm good inside my apartment.

It's like really dark. So I didn't really get over that. And even when I had a puppy, I was okay walking her to the park and all that stuff because I'm doing something. I'm walking my dog, but if I'm gonna go to the park all alone by myself for what why? No, I'd rather stay in. 

I'm not gonna say it was weird It was just that was just how I dealt with things. And so during during the summers I had that to contend with like what's wrong with me the depression that I was feeling and just like really Like immersing myself into things like watching movies and reading a book [00:36:00] instead of actually sitting down to write and, and, and dealing with what I was feeling.

Brad Minus: Had your own form of escapism, but you escaped to your own house. Yeah. And stayed there 

Cathelina Duvert: yeah. 

Brad Minus: And, but you're still, you're still saying that you would, even now, you have a day off, you'd rather stay at home and write. Oh yeah. 

Cathelina Duvert: Oh yeah. 

Brad Minus: But you're writing. Exactly. You know, you've got a purpose.

Yeah, you know, there's a purpose there where before you weren't leaving because you didn't have a, you only would leave if you had a purpose, but when you were staying in, you didn't have a purpose either. That would cause me to be depressed. 

Cathelina Duvert: But here's the thing. I never dealt with that issue.

So that's one of the things that I would have to talk about in therapy because even though I now stay in with a purpose, I still have not dealt with why. I'm afraid to go out and just be out, be out by myself. I don't want to go to the movies by myself. Why am I like this?

Right? There's a reason I still [00:37:00] haven't dealt with that. 

Brad Minus: But you know what? That's self actualization right there. And that's a lot of what's, what's going on today is people don't understand about themselves. You know what I mean? They're not honest enough with themselves. Sit there and say that they do have this issue, you know, and you.

You are, you know what the issue is, right? You remember the first part, the first thing to start to, to solving a problem is identifying it. 

Cathelina Duvert: At least 

Brad Minus: you got that point and you have a strategy to get there. It's just logistics of getting yours there, finding a therapist that you connect with so that you could deal with it.

I don't have an issue with that. I think that at least you've got it there and you can compartmentalize it. Right. Obviously, you're doing that. You're talking with me right now. You got a big smile on your face. So, it sounds like you're on your way to taking care of that.

So, and I wish you all the luck, to getting that done. And I know you will because you conquered all the rest of the stuff, all the rest of the things. So conquered it. And like you said you didn't cure it, but you conquered it. And that's great. And what you've told us [00:38:00] today about ways and strategies to dealing with it without medication is so valuable to people that, it's just going to help so many people just to know that, okay, well, listen, she tried meditation.

She tried writing short of this. Let me try this for 30 days. Let me try this. Maybe put them together. You know, and I think just the, some things that you laid out for us, I think is going to be, it's valuable to people. And I think it's going to really, really resonate.

And I really appreciate you being, you know, you. Being so forthright, in this, in this interview, so I really appreciate it. So, so, Cathlelina, she has a book out, it's called The Box. It is on Amazon, Barnes Noble, and you can get that, and I will make sure that there is a, there is links in the show notes.

Cathelina Duvert: Again, 

Brad Minus: also, she's, you can find her at Cathlelina Duvertt, that's D U V E R T. On Instagram, that you need to check out. I don't care what [00:39:00] anybody says. Go through and you'll see all of her videos of her, of her just having a nice conversation with the camera. Listen to all of them. They're all, they're all fabulous.

And don't forget to check out her Halloween picture with her in, in 70s gear. Look at, with her poster because it's really cool. So you got to check that out. And, then she has her, she has a, she has a, a webpage, kathalineDuverte. kit. com and that will give you more information on the box.

And are you doing a, are you doing a newsletter? 

Cathelina Duvert: I do have a newsletter. If people go on to kathalineDuverte. kit. com It's a landing page and what they can do is, through that landing page, they can order my novel and then they could subscribe to my newsletter. 

Brad Minus: So, yep. And then there's, you can see that it asks you to put your email address in there.

She doesn't spam you. She just, you hit subscribe and you go from there. And then there's a bunch of links to where, you can get. And then the rest of her socials, which I'll also copy and put into the show [00:40:00] notes. you'll also find a., is on Life-Changing Challengers.Com. You'll also find a blog post that corresponds with this episode and you'll see the show notes along with, of course, on YouTube and Apple and Spotify.

 but that being said, if you are watching this. It's on YouTube. Please go ahead and hit the like button, subscribe and the notification bell. So you'll always know when we drop a new episode, then if you're on Apple or if you're on Spotify, if you can just leave us a review, I don't even care if it's a good review.

 if you, even if you give me a bad review, I have some, you know, I've got some feedback and I can make and evolve this podcast and I appreciate that. So. Cathlelina, thank you so much for sharing some time with us today. We really, really appreciate it. 

Cathelina Duvert: Yeah. Well, thank you, Brad, so much for making this conversation so interesting.

I really appreciate you inviting me here. 

Brad Minus: Oh, and I appreciate you being here, but for me, for Cathlelina and for the rest of you, we'll see you in the next [00:41:00] one.