Overcoming Adversity and Rewriting Your Story – Christian Espinosa’s Journey

Brad Minus: And welcome back to another episode of life changing challengers. I have Christian Espinosa with me today. He is an author. He's an entrepreneur. And you know what? The guy's an adventurer and we're going to get into all that cool stuff that he did a little bit later, but he has two books out, the smartest person in the room. And the in between, and we'll talk about those in a little bit. But first of all, Christian, how you doing? 

Christian Espinosa: I'm doing well. 

Brad Minus: Hey, Christian, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood?

You know, where you grew up, what was the complement of your family, and what was it like to be Christian as a kid? 

Christian Espinosa: I grew up in Riverside, California. It's like a suburb of L. A. With a stepfather and my mother, I never really knew my, real dad and it's very chaotic. My mother was addicted to drugs and pain meds and, you know, lots of other things.

So it was very chaotic environment. The cops come in all the time and we moved ended up moving to Arkansas, a small town called Knoxville, Arkansas. So population 800 people after California. So my mother could be closer to my grandmother because she was kind of dependent. And, that was a quite a culture shock.

Imagine going from California to a small town of 800 people. So I was picked on quite a bit called the city boy, and all that. And things just got worse. We ended up moving to a single wide trailer. We're on welfare, food stamps, government cheese, all that. And like I said, it was very chaotic.

So my, I didn't have any safety or stability or security growing up. My mom's friends was still my stuff. And like I said, I ended up with my grandparents, my senior year of high school as I could focus on school. And I knew that this was not the environment I wanted to become a product of early on.

I worked hard in school, to get a scholarship. So I was number two in my class. We moved to Clarksville, Arkansas, which had. Like 5, 500 people. So I was number two in the class, all state football and everything else.

And it ended up getting a lot of scholarships. I got more scholarships than my entire class combined from monetary perspective and got like a standing ovation in my, Graduation. So that was kind of cool. 

Brad Minus: Nice. So did you get those? Were they all academic or partial? Well, some of them partial, athletic where, where are they some sort of extracurricular?

Were they a combination of all of it? How did you know? I literally 

Christian Espinosa: applied for every type of scholarship or grant I could get. I got like the Pell grant for being poor. I got a football scholarship to Notre Dame. I had a football scholarship to a couple other places, and some academic scholarships.

I got accepted to all three. Military academies as well. Ironically, the last game of my senior year in football, I tore, three ligaments in my knee, including my MCL so my football scholarship was, kind of off the table. I could have probably played football, but I didn't want to risk messing my knee up permanently.

I had a screw in my knee to reattach my ligament. And I lost my scholarship to the air force academy too, which is where I ended up going. So I had to work. Super hard to rehabilitate my knee and pass the physical to get. My acceptance, regranted to the Air Force Academy, which is where I chose to go.

Brad Minus: Wait a second. Hold on a second. So let me get this straight. So I get that you lost your football scholarship, but that sucks that it was the last game of the season. Holy moly. I mean, you can't get any worse than that. And I am, oh man, I can't imagine what that felt like. But the fact that you got accepted and got scholarships to All three military schools and you lost your scholarship to the Air Force Academy, but you decided to go anyway.

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, I had to, when they found out about my knee, they put my scholarship in like a status where it was not quite approved. I had to rehabilitate myself and prove I was rehabilitated. Physically. So that's what I did. I would run bleachers. My knee, like, hurting severely, to rehabilitate my knee.

I would take ice baths every night because my knee was hurt so badly. But I got my knee back in shape. 

Brad Minus: So you got the scholarship, but wait a second. If you get accepted the military school, isn't there actual like tuition?

I thought that you would, you just owe them five years afterwards. 

Christian Espinosa: There's like an initial, tuition, I think of like a couple thousand dollars, but yeah, there's really no tuition. You get paid like 50 bucks a month as a freshman or something. You owe five years. 

Five years active duty, eight years total. So that would include three years in the reserves afterwards. 

Brad Minus: Right, right, right, right. So, yeah, I'm nine and a half years, in the United States army. So, yeah, and the initial contract was eight years. You had to do at least four and then four years.

Yeah. Four years IRR. And after two years of my IRR, they called me back. So, really? Yeah. Because it's pretty rare to 

Christian Espinosa: call someone back from IRR. 

Brad Minus: Right. It was 2003. 

Christian Espinosa: Oh, 

Brad Minus: yeah. 2003 got called back. And even though I'm, I then, when I was done, when I actually had the contract was over, they called a stop loss.

So they didn't let anybody go. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. So that was, that was interesting. But it was good. I enjoyed the time that I had in the military. So how, how did you like the Air Force Academy? 

Christian Espinosa: I didn't like it because I went from that chaotic environment. where I kind of made my own decisions and I was really the parent for my mother and she ended up divorcing my stepfather, but I didn't like it because all of a sudden I went to a very structured, like over the top structured environment 

Brad Minus: where 

Christian Espinosa: I was getting yelled at all the time and told what to do all the time and I couldn't respond other than like the seven responses you can only do.

So at first I didn't like it once I got to like build some friendships and things that kind of grew on me, but it was like this bittersweet, you know, as a way to get out of my environment. A way to, like, become disciplined a way to start a career, even though it's in the military. A way to do some cool things, like, jump out of airplanes and fly gliders and.

Go through survival training, which I like those aspects of it. I just didn't like the traditional hazing where upperclassmen could harass you all year for a year. It's like a year of basic training, basically. 

Brad Minus: Right, right. Yeah, I wouldn't know a year of it. Obviously, I went through the rate, basically the basic and the I.

T. And you got some razzin while you were there. But it wasn't like what you went through. Not for a year. So do they, does everybody do the same thing in the military academy? Do you have some sort of like major? 

Christian Espinosa: Traditional college in that sense, you pick a major. So I majored in electrical engineering. I wanted to fly. I also joined the military cause I watched top gun. I know that's Navy, but that got me hooked on flying jets. So I wanted to fly jets for the air force. I didn't want to live in an aircraft carrier.

And unfortunately, two years before I graduated, they cut like all the pilots slots. So, I decided not to pursue it after I got an active duty. 

Brad Minus: Oh, man. I know how that felt. Matter of fact, after Top Gun, I was a sophomore in high school. Begged my parents to send me to this military school down here in Florida called the Florida Air Academy.

Basically it was a boarding school where you learn to fly while you're in high school. And I did that exactly like you said, after I saw Tom Cruise in Top Gun, I'm like, Oh, I want to fly jets. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, I think that was one of the best recruiting movies for the military. 

Brad Minus: Oh, yeah. No, no, no.

It was super cool. Yeah. I bet that's why all the slots were taken by the time you got there because all those guys that saw Top Gun were like, I want to fly. Well, that's, that's awesome. So, what kind of units were you in as an electrical engineer? 

Christian Espinosa: My APC or my career choice was communications.

So I ended up doing communications. A couple of aspects of that I helped protect like secret networks from, you know, the enemy help make sure that our sequence were secret. I worked on deployable communication. So when a forward deployed unit was sent to the field, they had a portable. In Mars sat satellite dish, they can set up and get network communications as well.

Brad Minus: Well, now everything's starting to make sense. The research that I've done on you, is now starting to already take shape. So, and I'm not gonna spoil it, everybody. So we're gonna get there. But yeah, you know, interesting enough. So I went into the military basically, cause.

I didn't really know what I was going to do. I'd already gotten a, degree and I basically went in because I found out that I could literally pay off all 65, 000 of loans that I had in three years. And I was like, Oh, well, when I put the numbers back together and I've thought, okay, if I get those three years and I add that back, then add the taxes and everything else, I would have had to make like 125, 000 a year.

In order to make that, and I'm like, well, I'm never going to get a job making that right out of college, but I essentially will be making that, you know, if you really put everything, you know, back to pen and paper, added taxes back in the whole bit. So I was like, well, this is actually a great, this is a great thing.

So I ended up doing that. And the interesting part is, even though my MOS was something totally different, they recognized. That I had worked, with computer systems before I went in. So I got put on that like immediately, and ended up going into the Pentagon and putting in a backbone for the army's human resources information system.

Christian Espinosa: Oh, nice. 

Brad Minus: Into the earring, and that led me and I had a, and they kind of like threw it at me. They was like, here's all the stuff. This is what needs to happen. Go. No one had ever done anything like that before. So I had to work with a bunch of different people. And, basically I didn't know how to organize it.

So I tumbled on to PMI, the project management Institute and learned. And that's what I've been doing, and to make money for the last 20 some odd years. So like you, right? 

Christian Espinosa: That's awesome. Yeah, I'm a certified project manager from PMI. I think I may have let it lapse.

Brad Minus: Yeah, 

Christian Espinosa: PMP. I'm a PMP. I forgot to do my annual payment or when I'm like credits or something. Right. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Project man. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: We're here to talk about you. So talk to me about, tell me about like, your favorite, can you give me your favorite memory of being in the air force? 

Christian Espinosa: Probably my favorite memory was actually in free fall school jumping out of airplanes because I love the movie, point break as well when they jump out of planes.

So that's 1 of my favorite movies. And, yeah, I got to jump out of planes. It wasn't with modern parachutes. It was the round ones where you have to do a peel after parachute landing fall and you land like. Super hard, and you can break your nose and other things if you don't land properly, but. That was one of my favorite memories.

It was, really, thrill seeking for me. That and I also really enjoyed mainly in hindsight, but, I went through Siri, survival, evasion, resistance, escape, and going through like torture interrogation training. All that was, exciting as well, but that was exciting in a different way than skydiving or jumping out of planes, actually.

Brad Minus: That's cool that you got the free fall in the Air Force. I got static line. So, yeah, obviously PLF, Brown Parachute, same thing. I did do free fall, later on in life. Tandem, then AFF and the whole bit. So I did get to do that.

That was fun. Did you, so you got certified while you were in the Air Force? 

Christian Espinosa: I did the five jumps, in the Air Force Academy and got my free fall badge. You know, you wear a new uniform and then probably like five years after I got in the military, I went and got certified at a drop zone. I went through AFF.

I got my A license, my B license and my C license. 

Brad Minus: Cool. Nice. Cause that's what that's 20 jumps all to get up to that point. 

Christian Espinosa: It's to get 

Brad Minus: 200 jumps. A license is the 20. 

Christian Espinosa: jumps. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Cause I ran out of money trying to get to 20. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah. I'd like to get my D licenses now.

Cause I want to jump in Dubai, but you have to have a D license to jump in Dubai because you're, you're jumping over water. So they want to make sure you have a D license. 

Brad Minus: So you spent, did you only spend five years in the air force? 

Christian Espinosa: I spent about six total duty, not, not counting the four years of college.

Brad Minus: So what'd you do when you got out? 

Christian Espinosa: I became a defense contractor. So I basically took a job, to building across from where I worked active duty and traded my uniform for civilian clothes and worked in kind of the same environment. And in that job, I traveled to Air Force bases in Europe to help secure their networks and optimize their networks as well.

I traveled incessantly. 

Brad Minus: Oh, my God. That's so cool. Now, at this point in time, are you married now? 

Christian Espinosa: I just got married on November 21st and just celebrate my honeymoon dubai and Abu Dhabi last month. So yeah, 

Brad Minus: Is that your first marriage? 

Christian Espinosa: It's my second marriage I got divorced in 2002 

Brad Minus: okay, did that kind of start your when you got out of military 

Christian Espinosa: it was, I got the military in 99. So it was a few years after I got the military. 

Brad Minus: Okay, 

Christian Espinosa: and that's when I went back to the drop zone after I got divorced.

I'm like, okay, I'm free to do whatever I want. I'm going to go freaking skydive. I'm going to go scuba dive. I'm going to sign up for our triathlons. You know, go all in on things since I don't have anybody else. 

Brad Minus: So that became your adventurer time, right?

Christian Espinosa: When I was married, there's always like, well, you know, that's too risky or we don't want to pay for that sort of thing going on. When you divorce, it's not easy. It wasn't easy for me. So I needed something. To look forward to and something to work on and I found that in skydiving primarily skydiving and later I found it in Ironman triathlon and scuba diving.

But to me, that's. Not as exciting as Iron Man or Scott. I've heaped. 

Brad Minus: Well, you don't have to tell me about Iron Man's But we have to we have we're gonna definitely have to discuss it because that's that's my bread and butter right there so, I mean that's I I can't say enough about the company I do have some issues with the company, but that's that's not about this.

So Well, then then I've got to ask then so you get out of You get out of the military and you were, you know, you end up unfortunately getting divorced and you start start jumping. And then, which, you know, I think that's a good thing, right? It's to put your mind somewhere else, get you moving and get past this, you know, it's a hard thing.

Any kind of relationship that ends is hard. It's tough. What got you into triathlon? What was the driving factor? 

Christian Espinosa: A bet. So, 1 of the guys that traveled to Europe with, all the time he's on my team was a major smack talker and he signed up for this triathlon at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois, where we were based out of it was an Olympic distance.

And he's like, you know, talking so much smack and he bet me he could beat me. So I was like, all right, we'll see. And I didn't even know how to spell triathlon. I didn't know how to swim. I didn't have a bike, but I was like determined to beat that guy. So I bought the book, total immersion, kind of learned how to swim by cramming it in.

I borrowed somebody's like, is a Panasonic bike with like the shifters on the top tube. Yeah. Clipped on arrow bars. And, tried to practice running barefoot, not barefoot, but without socks on. It got major blisters a couple of days before the race. You know, I tried all the things, but I ended up beating them.

And, after that, I was like, you know, this is a, it's kind of cool. It gives me a purpose to train because before I just go to the gym and lift weights or, you know, do random things to try and look, look good and stay fit. But after that race, I was like, man, I kind of enjoyed the training. I have three things I can work on.

And I signed up for another triathlon and then it just kind of kept signing up for him and then, you know, went from Olympic to half distance. And then finally made the jump to full Ironman. There's nothing between half and full. So it's like a big job. But yeah, I made that jump and then.

Ended up doing 24 Ironmans, including the World Championship and yeah, 

Brad Minus: you went to Kona. 

Christian Espinosa: Went to Kona in 2015. When I first got into it, I think I started doing triathlons in 2002 that bet was in 2005. I went to the Ironman to watch it, the World Championship in Kona, and I stood under the finish line and I have a picture of myself under the finish line in Kai Lu Kona, and I told myself, someday I'm gonna do that race.

And exactly 10 years later. To actually finish the race crossing the finish line. 

Brad Minus: Holy moly. That's amazing. There's one thing to like now you've got two ways to get there. Well, you got three ways to get there. You can do charity, you can qualify or you can do legacy, the leg or legacy and then or I guess there is another way there's lottery.

So there's a regular lottery and there's a legacy lottery. Legacy lottery is if you got to do 12th. And then you get into legacy, but you actually qualified. 

Christian Espinosa: No, I did the legacy program. 

Brad Minus: You did legacy lottery. 

Christian Espinosa: I'm not super fast. So yeah, I did the legacy program. 

Brad Minus: Okay. Then nothing wrong with that.

You did 24 fricking iron mans. That's ridiculous. I was supposed to do my sixth justice last year, but. Two days before I was supposed to leave, I got COVID. 

Christian Espinosa: Oh, no. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, it was devastating. I'm still actually in my head about it. And I'm like slowly digging myself out.

But that's neither here nor there. And for, you know, we've covered this, but I just want to let people know that. An Ironman is 2. 4 miles swim. You jump out of the water. You jump onto your bike and you ride for 112 miles after the 112 miles, you jump off your bike and then you do a marathon of 26.

2 miles. This is nothing to shake a stick at. This isn't something that you could train for a few weeks and then decide to do right. This is a commitment and an Ironman. That is commitment. When, as far as staying fit. So 24. So did you end up doing once you got to that point of that distance?

Did you end up like doing 2 or 3 a year? 

Christian Espinosa: The year I did Kona, I did 3 in a 6 week period, which I know you're not supposed to do. I did Lake Tahoe. I did Muskoka in Canada. And then I did I then I found out I got the Ironman World Championship slot. So then I did that one as well after Lake Tahoe. So Muskoka, Lake Tahoe, and then the World Championship.

I had to have my bike shipped. I never got my bike back from the first race. I just had it shipped to the second race. The second race had a ship to the, to the Tacona. Oh, my God. Transport. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: The Iron Cowboy would be very proud of you. 

Christian Espinosa: I'm not. 

Brad Minus: I'm still, I think, I think, I know, I've met James Lawrence before he did, before he did the Iron Cowboy.

I met him at Augusta, and we were just hanging out and we were getting, we were just both doing a shakeout bike before the race. And I met this guy and I just happen to remember he was a cool guy and I thought he was cool looking, you know, he had the beard and the whole bit and he looked fast. So we were like riding.

We just happened to be doing at the same time. So I met him, shook his hand and that was it. This was before he was anything. And then all of a sudden he shows up on television as the iron cowboy. I was like, holy crap. I know this guy. Well, I mean, I was an acquaintance. But I did meet him. Good guy. I mean, just, just totally, just totally great guy.

One of my best friends who I've trained with for years and years and years, about 10 years. Her name's Maria. She's going to Kona this year. She got, she qualified and she's going to Kona this year.

She kind of did the same thing that you did. She did California. And she didn't go to the roll down because she was 16th. She ended up being 16th in her age group. She's like, there's no way I'm getting the roll down. She should have stayed because she would have gotten it because it was that late.

Three weeks later, she goes, okay, I'm just going to go do Mexico. And I'm going to do Mexico and then I'm going to stay for it. And then she ended up getting the roll down. So she ends up so she's going and I'm going to go and support her. So that'll be my picture at the finish line for me to say, I'm going to go.

Right? So that I'm going to take your lead on that. And that's exactly what I'm going to do, 

Christian Espinosa: coed again and one now. 

Brad Minus: Which is I was thinking about going, I was going to go, balls to the wall and see if I can get it this year. So I could go with her. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: I would have had to go to France. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, I don't want to go to 

Brad Minus: France. 

Christian Espinosa: I went and did Chattanooga the half a couple years ago. And then I went to, Coeur d'Alene with a couple people. I was helping train and they, they were practically given away slots to, To France, I mean, you could have if you just finished in your age group, you would have got a slot.

Nobody wanted to go. Everyone wanted to go to Kona. Nobody wants to go to France for the world championship. 

Brad Minus: So I'm hoping that that's what they're going to end up doing one. And so 1 year they tried it. To where they did men on Saturday and women on Sunday. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: And that was cool. 

But that means closing the roads in Kona for two days instead of just one. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah. That's where they decided. One day. 

Brad Minus: But there was something about, I don't know if it was like too crowded or what, but they did it for years and years and years.

Before they decided to split it up, 

Christian Espinosa: well, they're trying to cram more people into it to make more money. 

Brad Minus: That's part of it. Yeah, that's absolutely part of it. So, and, but I think what happened was the 70. 3 world championships really got a good response from the idea of doing men on one day and women on the other, and they got a great response.

So they thought they were gonna do the same thing with Kona. But then obviously Kona said, Well, I can't have the streets closed for two days. So that's when they decided, Okay, we'll flip flop. And sometimes you'll do nice. And sometimes you'll do Kona.

But like you said, People aren't crazy about going to Nice. 

Christian Espinosa: It all started in Hawaii, 

Brad Minus: and Siri, I'm the same way, right? I was going to go balls of the wall and see if I can see if I can knock it out. And I was going to like, I was going to train my butt off and get there at the last second so I could go with her.

And then I remembered. I'm like, well, no, you're not going to go because. It's switched off and you don't want to go to nice. So I'm going to move it to next year. So, but yeah, anyway, but I, I think I'm put 24 of them. Oh, you did. And you did the 1 time that they put Coeur d'Alene back on the map for, for a full, you know, cause they had pulled that for a long time.

Christian Espinosa: Oh, you did it before. I tried to do all of it in North America. I did Los Cabos before they took that one off the map as well as like Muskoka. That only lasted, I think, the year I did it. So yeah, I've done a lot of them that were only like one year. 

Brad Minus: Muskoka wasn't easy.

Christian Espinosa: That's why they took it off. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, 

Christian Espinosa: I fortunately got that one in the first year I went there. They canceled it like five minutes before the start because of the smoke, the fire. I had 

Brad Minus: friends, I had friends there that did the same thing.

They were sitting there and they were just like, you know, everybody was in their wetsuits ready to start. And then they called it, Oh my God, that's, Oh, that's gotta be hell. Wow. So. All right. You know what? Doing an Ironman is.

It's not exactly cheap. You know, even back then, you know, I did my first in 2011. It was still just just to do the race. It was over 600. So you've got to, I mean, that's a lot of money. That's been a bike and everything else. That's a lot of what were you doing, you know, during that point point in time.

You know, I know you said you were a defense contractor but did you end up doing something else afterwards? Because that's still, that's something that I don't know if you do that on a defense contractor, 

Christian Espinosa: a commercial company as a VP of, security products.

So, as a 9 to 5 job, I mean, it's more than 9 you know, a typical 

Brad Minus: corporate type 

Christian Espinosa: job. So, let's make a good money there. And then after that, I became a freelancer or solopreneur, so I kind of controlled my own income stream as much as I wanted to work as little as I wanted to work. And then after that, I started my 1st, cybersecurity business, which was way more demanding on my time than I thought it would be, 

Brad Minus: oh, right. No, I get it. That's life. And it's getting to that point as an entrepreneur, you know, obviously the first few years are probably kind of light, right? As far as income goes.

So let's look. So let's step back and let's look at the timeline real quick. So, all right. So how long did you spend doing defense contracting? 

Christian Espinosa: I did that for probably 6 years. 

Brad Minus: Okay, and then defense contracting then you move to corporate 

Christian Espinosa: then I took a job where I helped Test aircraft, so my job was to hack into commercial aircraft and military aircraft to make sure they were safe from hackers.

So make sure somebody couldn't plug a USB port into the inflight entertainment system and, you know, take over the cockpit and control the plane. So that was my job to make sure. These aircraft were secure 

Brad Minus: so 

Christian Espinosa: cool 

Brad Minus: As a fellow nerd. I'm like, yeah, that is the coolest thing in the world. So you were ethical hacking, aircrafts 

Christian Espinosa: pretty much every, type of commercial aircraft.

Yeah. 

Brad Minus: So we basically have you to thank. For us being safe up there in the air from hackers, even though there's been some, we've had some incidents, but basically we have got you to think 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, I can imagine for a specific, model of air or company. Yes, that makes the aircraft crazy.

Brad Minus: I mean, I can't even imagine that. What was it? Was it literally you would go to work and. You would like sit next to an aircraft and plug in and plug out and, and just sit at the keyboard and try and get yourself into the, into the computer system. Was that basically your day? 

Christian Espinosa: So there's multiple stages of it.

A lot of the testing was in the lab. So they had a lab that was set up exactly like the aircraft. So we would test in the lab and then we would have to do on ground tests and in air test. Witnessed by an FAA administrator or FAA person. So, yeah, on the ground, you'd go find the secret Ethernet port, try to plug stuff into the IFE, the in flight entertainment.

In the air, do the same thing and hope that whatever you're doing is not going to cause a plane to crash. So, yeah, we already tested that stuff in the lab, so we knew it, shouldn't work in the air. But yeah, tested it in the lab on the ground and in the air. 

Brad Minus: Okay, so while you were in the air, did you ever have a point where you got in?

Christian Espinosa: No. 

Brad Minus: You were just too good because you got it done in the ground. 

Christian Espinosa: Well, yeah, we identified things in the ground, but aircraft are, divided up. There's like the aircraft control domain. Which is isolated from, like, the information domain, which is isolated from, like, the inflight entertainment domain.

So these things are not supposed to be interconnected. There is like a 1 way feed, which was a point of entry from the aircraft control domain to the passenger domain. So, if you look at your inflight entertainment system, you can see. Like the flight path and look at the carpet view and altimeter. That's where that feed comes from.

Brad Minus: That's cool. That's something else. I imagine a lot of people would probably think about that. So, I got to ask. So the downsides, is there a lot of documentation that you had to do while you're out there to have? Did you were able to have somebody else do that for you?

Christian Espinosa: The client typically did most of the documentation, but I had to review all the documentation and, you know, create this spreadsheet with what page, what paragraph needed to be updated and what the suggested updates were and very, very, lengthy documents. 

Brad Minus: That's the only thing about my job that.

I could go without. I love talking to people. I love, scheduling everything out. I love getting to the end. I love having to plot the path to get there, actually sitting down and writing up narratives on how to do the whole thing. So the execs understand that could go.

So I get it. So, man, you started this company, you know, And so that you said it was your first company. So did you end up selling that? 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, I started my first cybersecurity company in 2014 and sold it in 2020 to a publicly traded company. 

Brad Minus: You said your first so that means you started another one.

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, my second one is blue goat cyber. We focus on medical device cybersecurity. 

Brad Minus: What made you decide to go into medical device cybersecurity 

Christian Espinosa: with my first company? I Made every mistake I think you can make. I paid a lot of dumb tax as they like to say. I thought everybody needs cyber security. So I tried to sell cyber security to everybody, which meant my marketing.

My messaging was very diluted. We ended up getting a medical device contract for the big medical device manufacturer in St. Louis, which is where I live at the time. I just thought this is a niche I want to focus on. So I sold the company and the parent company didn't have a lot of interest in medical device, cybersecurity.

And while I was working for the parent company, I worked for them for a while, I developed six blood clots in my left leg and almost died. So thanks to a portable Doppler ultrasound, a medical device. I was quickly diagnosed and I'm still here. So after like a year of depression and blood thinners and sedentary lifestyle, I decided to reclaim my, I decided to reclaim my life.

And, once I made the decision, I started blue goat cyber. And I thought, you know, I need to focus on medical devices because if it wasn't for one, I may not be here. 

Brad Minus: And there you go. That is like the epitome of what we're about. Adversity. You ended up with six blood clots, which we're actually going to dig into here in a minute.

And then instead of, you know, obviously there's always going to be. An emotional period about that. But then you took that and decided, well, I'm going to do something with it. And then now you've got a successful company that you're running. You had a couple of books, which we'll talk about here in just a few minutes.

Let's step back. You got six blood clots. What were the symptoms about it? You finding out about this? What started happening? 

Christian Espinosa: I was still training for Ironman. This was during covid. So they kept talking about having one, but you have to get tested and all this stuff.

So I was training and I had just done 120 burpees and some core work and a few other things. And then the back of my left leg, like behind my knee started hurting and I thought I just pulled a muscle. But I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone and she was like, okay, It's like this intuitive and touch person.

And she's like, you probably have blood clots. I'm like, whatever. I'm like an Ironman triathlete. I don't get blood clots. But she made me promise to go to the hospital. So I went to the hospital and, yeah, I was diagnosed with six blood clots in my lower left leg.

Brad Minus: Now, when you have a blood clot the problem with that is that if it releases itself, it could end up going through the blood system into your brain, right? 

Christian Espinosa: It can go to your brain, and cause you to have a stroke, or it can go to your lungs and cause a pulmonary embolism.

Those are the two main widow makers, as they like to say. 

Brad Minus: Oh my god. So you get to the hospital. They diagnose you via, an ultrasound. And then, what was the. What was the, you know, what was the, what was, what was the, well, the prognosis we know, what was the, you know, it was the, the care was the care plan for that.

Christian Espinosa: The care plan, as they told me was, here's some blood thinners taken right now. Here's a prescription. Don't run. Don't exercise. Don't travel. Don't do anything that might cause one of these cloths to break off. That was the care plan. So I went from very active traveling all the time to they even told me don't even get a hot tub because that that could cause one to break off.

So, you know, not really a hot tub kind of person, but I was like, I couldn't go on a hike. I couldn't go on a run I couldn't do anything and my leg progressively got worse to where my foot was numb. I couldn't really feel it for a while. But yeah, I, all the things I thought I like to do that. I did it.

I remember sitting in my car and just starting. Kind of like crying and thinking, man, my life is over. I can't do anything that I like to do, you know, so it was about a year of that. 

Brad Minus: A year. So you mentioned you kind of fell into the depression.

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, at first, you know, I was taking the blood thinners, and then I quit my parent company because there was a bunch of issues with that, about selling the stock and, Misalignment with value. So I quit the parent company and now I had a pre existing condition. So I couldn't get insurance, which was very frustrating So I was paying like six or seven hundred dollars a month for these blood thinners And it was the whole scenario is very frustrating for me at first.

I was like grateful okay, I'm alive but then the world started closing in and I started feeling trapped Caged and just like, you know, this is not how I want to live my life. I feel like I'm existing but not thriving, not doing the things I want to do. So it took me quite a while to get out of that.

But I guess I had enough because 1 day I was looking at the bottle of blood thinners and I threw him across the room. And I'm like, I'm done with these freaking things. I scheduled a blood test to get literally every possible test on your blood done. I got all of them done. I went and got another Doppler ultrasound.

They couldn't, nothing was wrong with my blood. There are no clots in my legs. So I'm like, you know what? I'm not taking thinners from this day on and I'm reclaiming my life. And once I made that decision, it's like other things fell into place. 

My relationship improved and everything else in my life improved for that one decision, which took a long time for me to get to 

Brad Minus: and that's the decision right there. And that's where a lot of us. We have that issue with the fear starts that. And that was basically what I'm thinking is that you had the fear that I'm never going to.

I'm never going to be where I was. I'm never going to be that guy again. And then finally you're like, all right, no more fear. I'm retaking this. I'm done. I'm taking this. Let me make sure that I'm okay. And then no holds barred. I'm done. And it took that year to get through that. I, that is the epitome of what we talk about here.

So tell me about you writing the smartest person in the room. 

Christian Espinosa: That was a result of my first company. My company was in cybersecurity. And 99 percent of my problems when I kind of zoomed out were because my staff lacked emotional intelligence. They were super high rational intelligence or high IQ, but super low EQ.

And what the defining moment for me was when one of my teammates, was telling me how a report review session with a client. And this is one of my best penetration testers or ethical hackers. He kept telling me that the client just didn't get it. And for some reason it struck me very differently when he said that, like, I'm like, well, this is our client.

If they don't get the results of our ethical hack against them and how to fix it, they're not going to fix it. So after that moment, I'm like, I got to solve this problem. So I changed the culture of my company. We did every Thursday, we did training for an hour, an hour and a half. And I developed that emotional intelligence in my company.

And that's what I wrote about in the book is the seven steps that worked, to develop that emotional intelligence, 

Brad Minus: beautiful. But what made you decide to put it down on on pen and paper? Well, typewriter, whatever 

Christian Espinosa: I went to this, genius, I call it a genius network event. It's here in.

And in Phoenix area, it's an entrepreneur event. You had to have a business with over a million dollars of revenue. And I've always had this problem where I feel like I'm not good enough. I haven't done enough. So I remember going to this event and. 50 percent of the people I spoke with at this event had books.

So I'm like, why the hell don't I have a book? I have things to say. So after that event, I decided to write a book and capture the lessons I learned in my first business, and that's what I did. And then after that book, I decided I want to write a second book. 

Brad Minus: So the smartest person in the room, the root cause and new solution for cybersecurity, and that covers the seven steps to help your company get to an EQ level where they can communicate with your clients? 

Christian Espinosa: Correct. Yeah, it's really about in cybersecurity, the typical personality type, things are smarter than everybody else because we all want to be significant.

In cybersecurity, it's like significance is I'm smarter than other people. And they're just stupid. That's, that's how it shows up predominantly. And then the ego does all it can to protect this identity you've made up for yourself. So that some of the ways it protects itself is by talking over people's heads.

If you talk over someone's head, they don't understand. It makes you feel like smart. Like, Oh, they don't understand what I'm saying there, but they must be stupid. If you listen to your teammate and find an opportunity to like snap and show the deficiencies in their idea, that makes you feel smart and then stupid.

So these things. We're constantly showing up my industry and they still constantly show up and I thought, you know, this is like, really hurting the whole industry, especially when people say, I can't get the budget or they can't stand talking to the cyber security people. So, I thought, if I can, like, shift the industry somehow towards developing some emotional intelligence.

Then I will help the industry as a whole because I was like kind of teeter tottering being so fed up with the industry. I was like, almost just said, screw it. I'm leaving cyber security. I can't stand all these people trying to intellectually bully me or prove that they're smarter than me all the time.

It's very, exhausting. 

Brad Minus: And just to give everybody an idea of what we're talking about, I'm going to ask Christian a question and that question is going to tell you what he's talking about. Christian, can you tell me, when coders started becoming popular, what were most of their passwords or was their password?

Christian Espinosa: Is it the one about God? 

Brad Minus: That's it. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: so that tells you right there what he's talking about. If they had the gall, the narcissism to have their password be gone, 

Christian Espinosa: that hasn't changed. 

Brad Minus: Then you got to see what he's talking about, 

Christian Espinosa: but the mindset hasn't changed. 

Brad Minus: Right, right. That's what I'm saying, though.

And the idea that you knew that, you know what I mean? I knew I could ask you that question and you would know what it was, especially being in cyber security. 

Christian Espinosa: Worked with a lot of software developers and used to manage software developers, so I'm very, very aware of it.

Brad Minus: I have numerous of my projects. So, you know, I basically work like you did and I still, well, not anymore. This is the second full time, I'm actually a full time employee. Um, I've never, it's, I've rarely have been a full time employee. My, the 20, Two years I've been in project management, um, and this is my second time, but most of the time it was, okay, you're going to do this project for three years and someone's going to hire you to be, to be managed for this project for a couple of years.

And this one for three months and this one for nine months. And this, you know what I mean? So it was, it was like that my whole career. This is the first time actually, um, I'm actually a full time employee and yeah. And they probably would have hired me as a contractor, but they just changed their model to where they're now just hiring them all out.

Right? Um, like, really, like, the person that sits next to me is still a contractor and they're in the midst of, they're in midst of negotiating his contract so that he, so that they can bring him on board as a full time employee. So, yeah, they're literally doing that right now. Um, but it's a law firm. And it's a global law firm.

They've been around since 1907. So they, you know, it's, they're huge. They're gigantic. Um, so they want to have people on boarded. There's a lot of legal aspects to having an employee versus a contractor, um, which is safer. So, but that's neither here nor there. Um, so yeah. So this is definitely and as we're talking is as you and I are are are discussing the the ins and outs of the I.

T. industry with both software developers, cyber security testers, cyber security, uh, developers. And testers and penetration testers and ethical hackers. Got, you know, you've got land developers, you've got cloud application developers, you've got, you know, all these people and they all have pretty much the same issue.

A lot of them really love to be heads down into the keyboard headphones on Mountain Dew ready. You 

Christian Espinosa: know, 

Brad Minus: yeah, you know what I mean? It's, it's, it's typical and, and them and getting that same rush of being the smartest person in the room, just like so I think this book is, it's still relevant and I think it is a must.

If you are an I. T. and you feel like that, you are, you know, that you're talking over people. Um, and you're, you're basically if you have that example where you're talking to a client and he doesn't understand what you're saying that you need to read this book. Um, what talent talked to me about the in between 

Christian Espinosa: the in between is a Um, um, Focused memoir about where I've got things right and where I've got things wrong in context of this challenge.

I've had in my life where I've been consumed or hyper focused on a macro goal, a big goal, and often I got so focused on a macro goal with these blinders on, like, I have to achieve this. It all cost that there were cost the cost where those micro moments right in front of me, the small moments that I ignored because I was too busy training to climb a mountain or training for iron man or whatever, building a business and relationships fell apart.

My health suffered some. You know, so I, I wrote the book to, to point out where I think I've got it right and where I've got it wrong, but also to remind me and anyone else that's a high achiever, that's hyper focused on these macro level goals that showing up with intention and the moment right in front of you can really help you in your life because life is a collection of these small moments.

And what I found is when I was chasing those big goals, kind of like Ironman, uh, in the world championship is a good example. It took me 10 years to get there, but as soon as I was done, I was thinking about the next big goal. I never even like congratulated myself for something. It took 10 years and I was like, man, this is like a rat, my own rat race I'm in.

You know? I'm just like chasing one big goal after another and not really feeling fulfilled. I feel like I'm not good enough still, which is like ironic. Uh, so yeah, it's about bringing that balance back into play and uh, yeah, showing up with that intention in the small moments. And because what Al also what I realized now, now they had the blood clots, the whole journey.

I did a half Iron Man and Chattanooga like a comeback race. I thought, you know, I don't really need to do a full Ironman anymore. I, I, I'm, I'm okay with who I am. And when I paid attention to the small moments, they informed me that, you know, you don't really have to go prove yourself and do another Ironman.

'cause I wanted to, but then I, then I paid attention to things. I'm like, for what reason? Really, at this point,

Brad Minus: I, as a coach, I would've said. The best reason that you would have had the rest reason I, I, I would have said because you wanted to, I think that's the biggest reason. I think that's the only reason why you should be doing things if because you wanted to. And that's just me, you know, and that's how I coach, you know, I'm like, I don't, you know, I've, I've taken a lot of bucket listers.

You know, like I literally, I, my, my roster just, just fell by like six or seven people because most people I live in Tampa, Florida. Um, I used to live in Phoenix by the way, just so you know. Um, but I live in Tampa and right down the street, just an, you know, just an hour and a half away, not even an hour and a half, um, is Disney world.

And just this last weekend, there's what we call, um, uh, it's Disney marathon weekend. Yeah. Um, and basically they do on Thursday, they do a 5k on Friday. They do a 10k on Saturday is the half marathon. And on Sunday is the marathon. Now the all, if you do all four races, it's called the dopey challenge. If you just do the half and the full, it's called the goofy.

Christian Espinosa: Okay. Right. 

Brad Minus: And I've, I've done the, I've done all four of them. The dopey I've done about five times. I've done the goofy like seven or eight. Um, and. So, um, so I get bucket listers who want to do their first marathon. Most of the time it's for full marathon. So I get them in September. They start, they get onto my, they get onto my roster and then on January they leave the roster.

That's my business model. I do it by the race. I have habitual racers just like you, right? My habitual racers. I've got, I've got a habitual racer that's been on my roster for like seven years. Um, so, and he loves it. But he does them because he wants to, and that's what I say to people. I'm like, that's the truest, purest form of the sport is that you do the race because you want to, you might part of it.

One of your races might be to get yourself ready for the race. You want to do right training race. That's what we do. That's why you and I, uh, we do sprints and Olympics, you know, to get us ready for the halves and the fulls. Right. Um, so, you know, we get that way, but most of the time that's the purest form.

I get what you're saying, right? You, you know, that was the second that I think is the second guess, um, is that you want to do it, but you'd have nothing to prove to yourself or to anybody else. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, I'll do it. I later when I feel like it right now, it's like, it's not a mandatory thing. Like, okay. I did a half before I was like, next thing is a full now.

I'm like, I did a half I'm building a business. I don't need to like do all the training 15 hours a week, 15 or 20 to, to do a full at this point. I can circle back to that later on. Because I, I know I can do it. 

Brad Minus: I agree. Um, you heard of, uh, you Lou, you've heard of, uh, Lou Hollander? 

Christian Espinosa: Yes. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. He's one of the 

Christian Espinosa: oldest, uh, Ironman athletes.

Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Right. I mean, did, did Kona up to 91? I think 

Christian Espinosa: 91. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Before he decided that it was, he was just going to train horses.

Yeah. 

Christian Espinosa: Okay. I thought it was that Japanese guy that was 86. That was the oldest. 

Brad Minus: No, no, no. He's I didn't, yeah, I didn't, he didn't say that he didn't, oh, well, 86 now, but no, uh, Lou did it till he was Lou. I think he, his last one, he was 91. Cause he's like, I always 

Christian Espinosa: had that in my mind. I'm thinking, you know, 85, I've seen 85 mid eight year olds do it.

I'm 54. So I've got 30 years left to like, do what Ironman if I want to, you know, nobody build the business, have an exit. And I get bored, I'm like, I'll just do Iron Man all over the world, just travel from one to another one, you know, those things all go through my head, right? 

Brad Minus: Uh, yeah, there you go, I mean, you might be the next, you might be the next Iron Cowboy, I mean, who knows, you know?

Um, but uh, yeah, no, no, no, and then, and then, uh, the Iron Nun was Oh. 96. She didn't finish, I mean, she didn't finish in time, but she did so many of them that everybody went back out to go get her and bring her in, she ended up like 1705 or something like that. 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, she's awesome, I met her Uh, at a small race, uh, where I have a condo in Missouri.

And she gave like the, the, the pre race prayer. It was cool. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Yeah, no. Um, Mirinda Carfrae was always my, she was, she was my workout wife in my head. 

Christian Espinosa: She's got an amazing run form for sure. Her run form is like top notch. 

Brad Minus: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, in her, in the three, the three that she won, she came out of the, she came out of the swim, like last 25 percent came off the bike top 25%, but not in front and then would win.

Christian Espinosa: Yep. And 

Brad Minus: then we'd run everybody down. She's great. I just, I loved her to death. I met her a few times. Um, and then I met, you know, Tim O'Donnell, her, her husband, um, a few times as well. He's a great guy. He's down to earth. So just so nice. He's great. Um, But yeah, I am. Yeah, definitely. You and I can. Yeah, we can swap frickin Iron Man stories from here until the end of time.

But I'm really excited about your two books. And now you've got two more books that you're working on. You want to you want to tease us a little bit? 

Christian Espinosa: Yeah, one of them is about medical device cybersecurity. It's more of like an in depth guide because I'm building my brand Blue Goat Cyber. And that's what we focus on.

And I want the market leader this year. And take over my competition. So that that's one more way to do that along with the podcast and webinar and other things we're doing. And then the other book is really about the story we tell ourselves. And if that story is holding us back or moving us forward and how to change the story and it's told through the lens of my own experiences, like, you know, with blood clots, for instance, the story I told myself for a while was I'm grateful that I'm alive.

Then the story became, I'm feeling trapped. So it's a matter of like. How do I change that story? And that was a moment I decided to get rid of the blood thinners. And say, you know what, nobody cares about my life more than I do, so I'm going to reclaim it. That's the story I want to have. So yeah, that's what that book is about.

Brad Minus: Okay, I cannot wait for that book. I cannot wait for that book. Matter of fact, we are going to talk after, after we finish this recording, and we're going to make sure we swap. And we're going to bring you back on after that one is published. And you and I will swap some more stories. And, uh, and give, and give everybody a little bit more, uh, of, uh, Of a, uh, introduction to triathlon and endurance sports.

And then we'll talk, then I want to definitely talk to you about more about your mountain climbing and stuff as well. But I think this is a perfect time to wrap it up. We got smartest, the smartest person in the room and go get that on Amazon. You, you've got the in between. And that's is that on my Amazon now, too.

Christian Espinosa: Yep. They're both an Amazon. They're audible as well. I had Khalil Griffith. He narrated art of the war and one of Tim Ferriss's books. So he did the narration of my books as well. 

Brad Minus: Awesome. So that's the 

Christian Espinosa: art of war. The art of the deal. I say the art of the deal. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: No, that was Sun Tzu. So, yeah, so.

Um, we'll have those links directly to the Amazon in, in the show notes along with, um, Christian Espinosa. com, which has all of those plus, um, some great summaries and some, and some YouTube introductions to the, to, to the books as well. And some, uh, it looks like some, some testimonials as well. So. You've got to take a look at that.

Chris Nesbitt Moses, chrishnesbitt moses. com. We'll have that linked in the, in the show notes. And then are you, um, oh, it looks like you're active on social media on just every platform. Um, so I'll have all of that linked down in the show notes. And if you have any questions or anything, go ahead and slide into his DMs.

That's okay. Right. Yeah. Any questions on anything, you know, um, slide into his DMS, get onto the website and, uh, and contact them that way. But you got to get ahold of Christian if you're, if you're thinking about, you know, changing your story emotionally, emotional, an emotional, uh, Um, you know, EQ, uh, and, um, triathlon mountain climbing, you know, free fall, free, uh, free fall skydiving.

You know, if you got those questions, go ahead and, uh, and give him a call, um, a drop into his DMS, um, contact him. So, uh, Christian, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for, for joining us. And we are definitely doing a part two when that new book comes out, because I think that's going to be super important for everybody.

We need to talk more about changing that story. So, uh, that keeps people back. You know, we always talk about on this. Podcast that's this that we're trying to help people level up, you know, level up their lives. Um, come back from adversity level up Now you've got the perfect the the the perfect example right here came back from six blood clots after being in the best shape of his life um, and you know went through a year of hell and came back and is doing it again after You know, having a successful business and starting another one.

So, you know, Christian is, you know, he's the Gary V of, you know, he's what Gary V wishes he was. So, um, so anyway, um, thank you again, Christian for joining us and speaking with us today for the rest of you. Thank you for listening. If you are watching on YouTube, please go ahead and hit that subscribe button.

Hit. The like button, if you like, and, uh, hit that alert button. So you always know when we're dropping a new episode, if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, go ahead and leave us a review. And you know what? I don't even care if a bad review. It could be a bad review because just going to show me how I can evolve the podcast to be even better than it is.

So, but, I appreciate you listening and for thank you. And we will see you the