Finding Strength in Grief – Dr. Lynn Banis on Overcoming Loss and Rebuilding Life

Brad Minus: Welcome to another episode of life changing challengers. I'm your host, Brad Minus, as always, and I am really lucky and really excited to be talking to Dr. Lynn Banas. She is a grief and resilience mentor, she's a founder and owner of Widows Rising Together, and it's a pretty amazing, organization, and we'll talk a little bit about that, how that got started and everything.

But first, Dr. Lynn Banas. How are you today?

Lynn Banis: I'm great. How about you?

Brad Minus: I am excellent. Thank you. So can you tell us a little bit about childhood where you grew up? What was the compliment of your family? And what was it like to be Lynn as a kid?

Lynn Banis: Okay, well, I grew up in a little town in southwestern Michigan, about 13 miles north of Notre Dame, and my husband said it was Mayberry on steroids.

pretty idyllic, in that it had a lot of, home offices. So it brought in some people for like Simplicity Patterns, National Standard, Cornier, a bunch of big So that brought in people that were interested in the arts and so forth. So, you know, for a little town we really had quite, quite the opportunity.

I had a wonderful childhood. I grieve that our society has changed so much that, you know, it's so different. I mean, I could hop on my bike in the morning and be gone and my mom didn't care.

You know, she knew I was safe and, you know, I'd get home for dinner. And just, have a great time. And when you're in a small, town like that, if you do something wrong, somebody is going to see you and tell your parents. So, we were all pretty good. And I had a lot of advantages.

We lived within 20 minutes of Lake Michigan. So we would go over and water ski and, you know, just, there was a little mini mountain about, 40 minutes from us in the winter, we'd go ski. So we just had, you know, it was just like I said, Mayberry on steroids. So, so it was great. And my, my family is very, very close.

My parents were great. They were wonderful mentors and, didn't put their expectations on us, but really encouraged us to, you know, go for it and do the best we could.

Brad Minus: Nice.

Lynn Banis: Yeah.

Brad Minus: I grew up around Chicago. So I wasn't too far from where you grew up and my childhood was somewhat like yours.

When we moved there, it was a small town. And it just grew up as I grew up. But it was pretty much the same thing.

Lynn Banis: What was it?

Brad Minus: Yeah. It was a little town called Bartlett.

Lynn Banis: I used to work in St. Charles.

Brad Minus: Oh yeah. See small world.

When I went there, we moved to Bartlett. We lived in Hanover park, which is like right up the street, but we moved there in 1977 or something like that. It was really much the same thing. My parents would just say, during the summer, get out, go ride your bike, get out, do something, go get dirty, whatever, just be home by time.

The streetlights turn on, or be home for dinner. Then you could leave again and do some stuff for a couple of hours and just be home by time the streetlights turn on.

Lynn Banis: Yeah.

Brad Minus: That was the way it was. And it doesn't, it's just not, not like that anymore. Unfortunately,

Lynn Banis: unfortunately.

Brad Minus: Yeah, so I mean, you grew up around, kids that if they wanted to play football, they just went out to a sandlot and

Lynn Banis: played

Brad Minus: football and frisbee and baseball

Lynn Banis: we had a big

lot in between our house and the next house and it was all grass. It was part of their property. It became a baseball, football, ice rink, you name it.

Brad Minus: So what did your parents do?

Lynn Banis: My mother was a teacher, a drama coach, and, she went to the Goodman Theatre.

You might be familiar with Goodman.

Brad Minus: Yes.

Lynn Banis: My father owned an independent insurance company.

Brad Minus: Yeah.

Lynn Banis: Just good old Midwestern folks.

Brad Minus: That sounds just like I, in my family, the amount of, I've got a couple of teachers and a couple of insurance agents. So I get it.

And you said you had brothers and sisters.

Lynn Banis: I have two brothers. Well, I had two brothers. I lost one, but I'm the Rose in the middle.

Brad Minus: All right. What was high school like for you?

Lynn Banis: Oh, I loved high school. We just had a great group of friends. We did everything together. It was just awesome.

I have enjoyed school. I mean, obviously I enjoy learning or wouldn't have a doctorate, but, you know, getting up every morning and going to school was great.

Brad Minus: Yeah.

Lynn Banis: Social life and your job.

Brad Minus: Right. Any extracurriculars?

Lynn Banis: Oh, there weren't any for women then.

Brad Minus: Okay, put me in my place there, Dr. Lynn.

Lynn Banis: Was nothing for us. And so I, ended up, playing keyboard and I, play the pipe organ. So I would, literally walk to church after school and practice and then walk home.

Brad Minus: Okay. That was not nothing. It just wasn't a part of the school.

That's awesome. So you were musical. That's great. , so obviously you liked learning, so you probably did well in college and then did you, where'd you go to university?

Lynn Banis: I started at university of Michigan in music school. And, I just couldn't figure out why people would rather go practice than to a Big Ten football game.

So I decided maybe that wasn't what I wanted to do with my life. And I ended up transferring to Beloit College in Wisconsin. So, and then, I got, dual masters in Virginia Beach at Regent and, doctorate at, Old Dominion University.

Industrial organizational psychology, leadership development,

Brad Minus: global

Lynn Banis: change management, all of those fun things.

Brad Minus: Oh, wow. How long did you do that for?

Lynn Banis: I did it for Anderson Worldwide, which was the parent company of Arthur and, Accenture. We were in Chicago for 17 years. My husband was with Northwestern

Brad Minus: oh, beautiful. My cousin's Alma mater.

Lynn Banis: Great school.

Brad Minus: Yeah, no, great school.

Matter of fact, that was the first college I visited because she was there already. She was two years ahead of me. So it was my first college experience visiting her for the weekend. Oh, that was fun. It was a great time. I'm not sure she thought that, but, for me it was great.

Still remember it, she was a good host. So did you work for Anderson right outta a college?

Lynn Banis: I started out as a teacher and, got frustrated with the public schools and ended up getting counseling degree and so then I worked my way into corporate America.

Brad Minus: When did you meet your husband?

Lynn Banis: I met him in about 85. I was doing my doctoral work. He was also Doing his

Brad Minus: In Virginia.

Nice.

So he, dragged him back to Chicago with you, huh?

Lynn Banis: I know he got the job at Northwestern first.

Brad Minus: Okay.

I see how it is. So just what did you do at Anderson?

Lynn Banis: I was in a group that did performance management. I did a lot of coaching with partners all around the world and helping them figure out why their, leadership team wasn't doing what they wanted them to do and, helping them be more productive and enjoying their jobs much more once they could get the communication and so forth all straightened out.

Brad Minus: Yeah, I did some of that myself. I worked for Tampa General Hospital. I was in organizational development and got a chance to do some of that myself. That was fun. I was a project manager and I kind of like managed the project and as I was managing them going through this culture change, they kind of made me a facilitator.

I built out all the new rooms because we were adding in this brand new EMR at the time. And it's a long, long story, but I ended up in the second part of the project, one of the other projects was to change the culture and we talked to Franklin Covey and we got them and we got onto, Steven Covey jr's, speed of trust.

Team and it was when they were first coming out with this thing and it was actually, really cool. So I get it and I think it's a fascinating way to spend a career because

Lynn Banis: it's so positive,

Brad Minus: What you're doing is making people better.

Lynn Banis: Yeah. Making them better, making them enjoy their work.

And then they enjoy the people they work with. They enjoy their clients and It's, it's great. I must say Anderson was an amazing place to work. And speaking of being in, organization development, it was also an amazing thing for someone with that background, which you would have enjoyed too, to watch it.

Brad Minus: Yeah. I think I got onto one project with Anderson. It was like three months though. Well, it wasn't that long and then I was out. It was just a quick thing quick turnaround. But anyway, so talk. Let's you know what I'm trying to do is it's so funny because I'm like, I'm sitting here and I we get to the meat of what I want to talk to you about.

And I know we have to go to this, to this three years, this, this three year stint. And I know we have to like, that's what we're moving to right now. So it's kind of like, I know we have to like, you know, Take it down a notch.

So I'm trying to

Lynn Banis: get too far down.

Brad Minus: Yeah, I think I'm trying to, I'm not trying to delay it, but I'm trying to like, and it's not working. So I like to be transparent with my audience. So this is exactly what I'm doing. And I'm going to keep this in.

I'm not even going to edit it out. So anyway, let's talk about that three year span that kind of took a little bit of a spiral down.

Lynn Banis: It did. And, you know, like a surprise to me, my mother came to live with us when, she was 100, she was an Olympic diver. She dove for the, women's athletic, association in downtown Chicago.

She dove in the world's 32 worlds ferry into the lagoon off the 30 foot tower with Buster crab and, John Weissmuller. And she was first alternate to the, LA Olympics in 32.

Brad Minus: It flashed Gordon catcher.

Lynn Banis: Not quite.

Brad Minus: Okay.

Lynn Banis: But anyway, you

Brad Minus: know, there's going to be a, load of people that listen to this that have no idea what I'm talking about.

Lynn Banis: She came to live with us and she was fantastic. She didn't have a cane or anything at that point. And, she lived till she was 106. She was healthy on top of things. But she fell and that broke 18 ribs and you can't breathe.

So that was, a deep loss. But you have to say it's not totally unexpected at that age. And, I had, after I, left Anderson, I went into my own business, started my own coaching business. And I did that partially so I could have more time with her. So I was just very blessed to be able to spend that time with her.

And, shortly thereafter, I got a call in the middle of the night that my little brother had had a massive heart attack and died. And then, within two and a half years, my husband passed away. So it was, compound grief for sure.

Brad Minus: Wow. That's gotta be devastating. I can't even fathom what that might feel like.

Lynn Banis: You know, and that's, that's part of the issue we have in this country is that. People don't really understand. I mean, you can't know what it feels like unless you've been there. I truly do believe that.

And most widows will tell you, we'll tell you that because it's just, there's no words to describe it. But, you know, we've got to break down the taboos in this country around talking about and, and how, and learning how to support people without being so afraid that we don't know what to say. So we just.

You know, move away and leave them alone. One of the biggest issues with grief is the incredible loneliness.

Brad Minus: I can only imagine. So I've lost some people like close to me. My grandmother was 96 and she died in her sleep.

My grandfather was 96. My grandmother was 98. It was a grieving process, but they had lived such great lives. They'd taken good care of us. They were healthy up to their 90s. And even my grandmother was healthy up to 94. So, it was a loss, but it was like, we knew it was coming.

Right? Yeah. So that was not a big deal, not to, right after COVID or right during COVID, an aunt of mine passed from COVID, but she had some underlying conditions. So my, my uncle, I'm going to the funeral and I go to my uncle and, I gave him a big hug and I was like, Uncle Bruce, I'm like, I, I, I, and I stopped myself.

I was about to tell him, man, I really understand what you're going through, blah, blah, blah. And I looked at him and I went, you know what? Hey, uncle Bruce. I, I can't tell you that. I cannot tell you that. I understand. Cause I don't like, I really don't understand. I can't fathom it. What you're going through.

You know what he said to me? He goes, thank you.

Lynn Banis: Absolutely. You know, and that's one thing I do is I try to, do talks and stuff to help, those of us who are not grieving. Understand how you talk to and support someone. And I also, with the people who are grieving, we're widows and widowers.

I'd have to teach them how to teach their family and friends to interact with them because we're just.

Brad Minus: Yeah, I get it. I get it. I want to go into this with you, but I'm lost for words, but let's talk about it just so you know.

So you talked about you just talked about that. We don't know. We don't know how to talk to, to you. To our friends and our friends on how to talk to us, as far as when somebody dies. Is that, is that what you found during those, during that time?

Lynn Banis: My, I have three daughters and they were amazing.

And their husbands were too. So my close family was great. But what happens is they have busy lives. And they go back to their lives and then you don't feel. And I think almost all people who are going through grief feel this way is that you don't want to be a burden. So you don't say anything.

When somebody says, how are you doing today? You say, oh, I'm okay. And what you really want to do is scream and say, I'm horrible. I feel like, you know, whatever. And there's just seems to be no end to it, but nobody wants to hear that. So you don't say it.

Brad Minus: You don't think anybody wants to hear that?

Lynn Banis: Exactly.

Brad Minus: Okay, great. I was waiting for you to say that. Cause no, I, I totally am okay with, you know, if somebody went through that, I want, I want them to say that I feel like crap. And I just lost this person and this person, blah, blah, blah, blah, and have them cry on my shoulder and I'd be fine with it, you know, not everybody is.

But I would be whenever I've talked to people in my, in my family, my friends and stuff that had lost someone that's, you know, we want that actually is to get that.

Lynn Banis: And we want the hugs.

Brad Minus: Course,

Lynn Banis: you can go for weeks without having anybody touch you. And, you know, so if you were used to getting hugs every day, and they say we need like, I don't know, between 15 and 30 a day.

Brad Minus: Really?

Lynn Banis: Yeah, and most of us don't get that many, but, you know. If you go to nothing, it makes a difference.

You feel it.

Brad Minus: Well, I'm behind.

Lynn Banis: Well, you better go grab some people.

Brad Minus: Know.

Lynn Banis: Or get a couple dogs.

Brad Minus: I have seven cats. I have a few of them that actually like me. It's cool.

Lynn Banis: There's nothing sometimes.

Brad Minus: Yeah. You know, I really am not addicted to cats, but I am addicted to adopting them.

That's my problem. Oh, I see. You know what I mean? You walk into his door, you walk in, someone's got kittens sitting there just like, Ah! I just want to make sure they're okay. That's my addiction. I see. I'm going to have to go somewhere a chip, because I'm a year without adopting a cat.

Let's talk about the compounding, right? So. You lost your mom and whether, you know, she was at that point in her life, it wasn't to me, I would be thinking, and maybe if you tell me if I'm wrong, it's not that she did go. It's the how she went for you. I would mention.

Lynn Banis: Exactly. Yeah, it was, you know, I had always just hoped it would be a peaceful go to sleep and not wake up. But we don't have a choice. How

Brad Minus: long would you say that you were in a grieving period at that point?

Lynn Banis: After my mom passed?

Brad Minus: Yeah.

Lynn Banis: Nine months or so. And

Brad Minus: then you said, well, it's a year and a half before your brother.

So you were just starting to get better, just starting. And then you lost your brother. And, that was a shock, right? Cause that was out of nowhere.

Lynn Banis: Total shock. He was, nine years younger than me. So he was a young kid and he took great care of himself and ate properly and just was a total shock.

Brad Minus: Yeah. It's amazing. I'm an endurance coach. You can see that on the screen. I help people. do things like marathons and Ironman triathlons and, 100 mile races and obstacle course races and stuff like that.

Some really, really crazy stuff that most people when they just hear about it, they're like they run away. But I help people do that. I've been in five races where You know, somebody had an issue and either ended up going to the hospital and not expecting it and then people that have died and you're talking about people that are in great shape that you don't go, you don't, in one of these races, you don't tow the line if you don't know that you are a hundred percent, you just don't do it because it's dangerous, I had an army vet during Chattanooga And he ended up having a heart attack on the swim.

I ran the Chicago Marathon and there was a firefighter. Now these firefighters are in good shape, 400 meters from the finish line. Collapsed, had a heart attack and died. So this can happen to anybody. So that's something we always got to be thinking about and I think that part of my message to people is to do things hard to go after things much bigger than yourself, much bigger than you can imagine that you can do.

And even if you've got to keep striving for it, you will get there. But the journey to getting there is going to take care of a lot of things for you as far as mentally, spiritually and emotionally. Right. But your, your brother guy wasn't guy was in shape, took care of himself.

Lynn Banis: He ran about 10 miles every morning.

Brad Minus: He's

Lynn Banis: between five and 10 miles a day.

Brad Minus: Wow.

Lynn Banis: So

Brad Minus: I mean,

Lynn Banis: you can see why it was a shock.

Brad Minus: Yeah. So I can imagine that probably took a little bit more than nine months.

Lynn Banis: Yes, it did. And then within a year my husband passed and that was unexpected.

Okay.

Brad Minus: So that had to be like, so here you've got compounded, compounded grief. What was your, give me, what was a day in the life of, of Lynn Banas. Let's say a month after, after your husband passed.

Lynn Banis: Total brain fog. Zero motivation. I didn't want to do anything. And thank goodness I had a dog that got me up in the morning and, you know, took care of her.

No appetite, just real lonely, very confused about, what bills needed to be paid and, what kind of subscriptions Bill might've had and magazines and all that kind of stuff. Wondering, when are they going to tell me bills are overdue again? At that point, people had pretty much disappeared.

So, you know, they show up the first week, two weeks and you have more food than you could possibly imagine. And then they go on with their lives and, you know, my neighbors were always really, really kind and great, but, much younger than me, so there's, you know, come over for a cup of coffee or anything like that.

So yeah, that was really a tough time. And when we think about compounded grief, we also have our societal grief that we don't think about. And we have a tremendous amount of that. When you think about COVID and so many people were lost in COVID, the change that we've talked about in our society.

And we see our country changing so much that we are all grieving to some degree. And don't even realize it. You know, I think that's one of the reasons why people are so stressed and, exhausted a lot of the time, because all this stuff is so different. And every time you turn on the news, you have something negative.

Brad Minus: Oh,

Lynn Banis: coming at you.

Brad Minus: I remember sitting down, now my father was like, alright, if you're gonna stay awake, you need to sit down and watch the news, cause he was very particular about making sure that I knew what was going on around me.

And I think there was one time, I think I was, 10, 11 or 12 in that 10 to 12 area, where you sat down and I asked him that question. I was like, dad, how come it's like, it feels like except for sports and the weather. Well, I lived in Chicago. So even the weather, is negative.

It's like we're not talking about people doing good for other people once in a while, they'll throw you a bone and they'll be like, hey this guy saved a cat from a tree Yay, But it was we counted it once and we were like it was for every six stories there was one thing that was positive

Lynn Banis: Yeah, you

Brad Minus: know,

Lynn Banis: It's just gotten worse and worse

Brad Minus: yeah. That's what sells. That's what keeps people coming. Negative. I don't understand it.

Lynn Banis: Yeah. That is so sad, but I think that, has been a shift in our society that people just eat that stuff up.

That's what journalism has sadly, turned toward.

Brad Minus: Yeah. I consider that a lot of our news sources. Mainstream media for lack of a better term is not journalism anymore. Now it's opinion media.

Lynn Banis: Yep.

Brad Minus: Yeah, that's the phrase I would use. And it's quite horrible. You know what I mean? Just as a human being, things happen to people and it doesn't matter. What your political view is the fact that it's a human being, you know, that it's either doing something or getting something done to them and we strive on it, not me.

I would, if somebody had some sort of channel that was all positive news every day. I'd be addicted.

Lynn Banis: Yeah, I would too.

Brad Minus: You found that you kind of got alienated, and this is where you thrive in the business that you're doing today is because you were actually showing people how to communicate, how to be with.

Somebody that is going through this process, correct?

Lynn Banis: No, I wasn't. I was struggling to figure out who I was and where I was going. And, which is part of the process, you know, because you lose your identity, absolutely everything in your life changes from the time you get up in the morning to go to bed at night.

Your brain rewires itself immediately because it's trying to protect you and it does that because what's around you, what you interact with all the time during the day become reference points and your brain can make sense of that and you then can function. But when a major individual person is gone.

There have to be changes for you to continue to cope and be able to be oriented. And so that's one of the things that we have to do once people get through the process of, those first five stages and they can regulate their, emotions a little bit. And the brain fog is lifting.

Then we try to work on helping them. rewire their brains to help them move forward. So because there's so many changes. I struggled. I really struggled for a good year. How,

Brad Minus: how did you, were you able to function in it? Cause you had a company at this point.

Lynn Banis: I had shut my business down when my mother came to live with us.

Brad Minus: Okay.

Lynn Banis: I did things that I would never tell my clients to do. It's just me. I've always just put my head down and forced ahead. I downsized because our house was huge and it had a pool and a big yard, I couldn't handle it all by myself and I kept looking at things and thinking, Oh, that needs to be fixed.

I need to get out of here. And so, I did move. And after that. My body just screamed and said, stop. And I was sick for three months with just one thing after another. So that gave me a lot of time to think through things. I kind of had an epiphany actually. I woke up one morning and I thought, I don't care how old I am.

I've got all the skills. I've got all the knowledge that I need to help people through this process. So I started to go back and look at everything I went through and what would have helped. I was doing a lot of it for myself and, never thought about it as, you know, just kind of did it, organically, because that's my training.

And so I just decided. That's what I'm going to do. I created the programs and started my business and. It's just been amazing.

Brad Minus: That's outstanding. So you went ahead and you started this with widows rising together. Was it, does that what it originally called?

Lynn Banis: I called it that. And, I'm different than most of the support that's out there. Most of it is like grief groups and they get people through, being able to regulate their emotions pretty well, but that's it. And that's not enough. I take them all the way through working through their thinking processes and stuff and, Figuring out who they are based on values and beliefs.

So they can create a new identity for themselves. And then we work on vision for the future, creating a path forward and, stepping into that next chapter of life that they have created the way they want it to. So I do that kind of work, which there's not much out there for people.

Brad Minus: So give me a quick, an example. Let's, let's say that let's just call her Jane. She's 70 years old, just lost her husband. Jane just lost her husband of, 50 years. And, she's gone to grief groups. You know, maybe made a couple of appearances at grief groups where she's maybe just starting to finally, you know, maybe she's past denial, but not yet to acceptance.

And so what would a program for her for that be? Just as an example, how would you, how would you help Jane?

Lynn Banis: I would, usually wait until they're past through the acceptance part of it. Okay. Because there's just. They're still not regulating their emotions very well. But I need them to have enough clarity that they can, can really make decisions and, and think through things because I spend a lot of time working on self limiting beliefs.

You know, the worldview, the perspective, teaching them to look at things from a lot of different perspectives, all OD stuff and coaching stuff, realigning values and beliefs. I do a, um, a study with them where I, um, I'm sure you're familiar with, uh, just the Haley and flow.

Brad Minus: Yes,

Lynn Banis: so when they're in flow, I do a study with them to figure out how they do things granularly, um, and what environment supports them in that.

And so then we begin to look forward and put things together, you know, the values and all that stuff and, and create a project. You know, figure out what their purpose is and, uh, what their new identity is. And then we can go forward to, um, think about, okay, so what do I want to be when I grow up? What do I want this next chapter to be?

And, uh, you know, we work it so that it is all supported through the work that we've done so that they can move forward and not stay stuck.

Brad Minus: Wow. That is absolutely. That's a hundred percent value right there. I think if now my uncle's not a very open person, but man, I think he would have, I think he would have definitely, you know, um, it would have been an advantage for him to talk to, to talk to someone like you after he, after he did that.

I mean, he's, he's great now. Um, he was lucky that, you know, his daughter brought, brought him in and she had a, uh, she had a garage. With an apartment above it where she lives and he's very handy, you know, like he's built stuff that I can't even think about like You know in inset inset inset shelves and desks and, you know, Doug did this great stuff.

So he remodeled the whole thing. So it gave him a project. So he got purpose like right away. That's

Lynn Banis: important.

Brad Minus: Yeah. So, um, but I know that he was, you know, that he, he was hurting there for a little bit, but he doesn't, like, he wouldn't talk about that with me, but I think he talked about it with my dad.

Who's his brother. I can see how that absolutely must, uh, it's gotta be just wonderful for you to see someone come out of that and have. You know, and have, uh, have success with it and be able to move on with their lives,

Lynn Banis: right? Right. You know, and they create, they create a legacy, um, for their family and, and for their friends.

Um, somebody that can, can step up and, and do those things, you know, they, that people look up to them and think, wow, that's amazing. You know, that's, uh, that's pretty cool. And some people say, well, if she can do that, I think I can do that.

Brad Minus: Yeah, yeah, I, oh my God. Yeah. I, I can't imagine. I can't imagine now that you talk about it like that.

I mean, obviously I haven't been through it myself, but I can't, can imagine not having something like that after you've, you'd like you said, and I think it was, I think that it was excellent point that you go through the grief group. So you can get to that acceptance stage, and then they can work with you to find out what's next.

Yeah. Um, and do you do any help with like, um, tangible stuff, you know, like what about them and their kids? And I wouldn't say, I wouldn't call it like estate planning or anything like that, but just kind of like, okay, well this is where you're starting. You got to make sure that, you know, things are, things are together and organized.

Do you do anything like tangible? Like here's, where's your, your life insurance and that goes here and blah, blah, blah, or by some

Lynn Banis: of the grief groups early on, because, you know, you can't wait with some of that stuff.

Brad Minus: But

Lynn Banis: I do work with them on things like family dynamics, because they usually change a lot.

Person, you may be, you may take on a whole new role. You may become the matriarch or patriarch, or you may, um, have a different, role that doesn't have a lot of responsibility with it or whatever. Um, or you may just become real independent. Um, I, I've seen a number of people who've taken this as just, you know, this is a huge advantage.

I can create what I want to create and I can be who maybe I wasn't. Able to be all the time because I was always, you know, catering to somebody else, which I'm not saying that's negative, but I'm just saying in a way some people really blossom.

Brad Minus: Yeah. Oh my God. I just thought about this. You know, I saw a short, a reel today of 104 year old woman skydiving.

She took her first jump off the thing. I just thought about that.

Lynn Banis: Well, George Bush Sr. did.

Brad Minus: He did it on his 100th birthday. Yeah, but it was, this woman was 104 and You know, and today people are looking younger and younger. It was great. I can tell you how big of a smile I had when they, they're like 104 year old, da, da, da, da, da.

And she was having the best time.

Lynn Banis: Oh, I bet. I bet. Yeah. Somebody that has the, the. Desire and the drive to go do something like that is going to have fun.

Brad Minus: Yeah, but I think, but, but when we think of it was, I was going to ask, not ask you, but I was kind of make the comment about bucket lists, right? There's a lot of things that we threw out our lives.

We're like, Oh, that's on my bucket list. That's on my bucket list. But then we get busy. Yeah. Yeah, I imagine at this point, they're like, well, I had that stuff on my bucket list and I imagine you could help them get to the point where no, no, you're not too old. Like, that's what I think about. I'm like, listen, if 104 year old woman who needed help getting on the plane can jump out of the plane and have a great time.

There's nothing all of you can't do.

Lynn Banis: Right, right. Yeah. I think that, um, that's just a huge thing. And that's one thing I use as, as we begin to look around and say, well, what do you want to do? What do you want to, you know, how do you want to be now? Um, sometimes those bucket list things are just wonderful, wonderful areas of gold and nuggets for people.

Brad Minus: Yeah. Oh, and I met another guy on a cruise ship. Um, he was at our table and he was telling us that he got rid of everything. Like, he got rid of his car, he got rid of his house, he got rid of everything, and he just One just keeps bouncing. He gets off of the, he gets off of one ship, walks onto another, gets off another ship, another, he just lives on the ship and his, he's got kids, um, in one of the ports.

And he's like, whenever he gets to that port, he'll maybe spend a day or two with his kids and then he'll jump right back on our thing. But he's like, he was telling me about it. And I was like, yeah, he said, no insurance. I pay. I, he says my, he was telling me that he's his overhead. Was something like 10, 000 less a month than, I mean, this is just straight up nut, it's just the, the, whatever he needs.

He says, he goes, you know, he says my biggest bill outside of the actual cruise. Is laundry.

Lynn Banis: Oh, wow.

Brad Minus: Yeah. He said that was his biggest bill outside of that because you know on those cruise ships They go by weight or they go by piece or whatever, but he goes, yeah, that's by far That's he says that that was that's my that's my biggest bill He says I got I've got so many like cruises and stuff that they they give him to him and then oh and he was Telling me that A lot of them, he'll just walk on to the next, the next one without a, without a reservation.

And they, because he, because a lot of them know them now, but other other ways is that, you know, they'd rather you fill the cabin.

Lynn Banis: Yes.

Brad Minus: Yes. And pay for drinks and pay for, You know, whatever, then, then not so he'll get like the cabin for free, pay a nominal amount for his food and, and tips and stuff and his laundry, basically, he says, and that's it.

That's all I got. I don't have insurance. I don't have any of that stuff. And I thought that was kind of, but that's what he's got. And so we saw the world two, three times over.

Lynn Banis: Yeah. I'm

Brad Minus: not getting tired of it. He says, I love it. So

Lynn Banis: that's awesome. You know, that's that's not for everybody, but I think, um, it sounds intriguing to me.

Brad Minus: Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, whenever he got to a certain port that his kids were in, he would just, he would just stop, spend a few days with his kids, see his grandkids. Then jump back on another, on another ship and go somewhere else.

Lynn Banis: Well, I'm, I'm working on providing, um, some transformational travel for people where I'll take them for a week or so.

Um, it's not a vacation,

Brad Minus: but

Lynn Banis: yeah, but it will, I'll have a team. That will work with these people, with people, we will do group things. We'll do small group things. We'll do individual things. We'll, we'll do things that will help them have breakthroughs so that they can really be in a place where they're looking at the world differently and walk off there with a clear vision of what they want to go to next, what they want to do next, what they, what they're visioning for their future.

Um, so I think that's going to be a lot of fun.

Brad Minus: I think you are going to help so many people with that. Lynn, I, I can't even imagine just for the fact, one of the big things that I'm thinking about as, as, as that's happening, as you just retreat, the one thing that I know that people, cause my uncle told me about it and, and in certain parts of my life, I remember that as well, um, is nighttime.

is like, everything's great during the day, but now you're providing them, now they're gonna have a bunch of people around them. So when nighttime comes, the only time they'll be alone is when they have to put their head down on the pillow. They wake up and more people and people are around,

Lynn Banis: right? So I got to imagine

Brad Minus: that that's going to be a big help.

Lynn Banis: Yeah. Community is huge. And, you know, if they're going through things like that together and working in teams and so forth, they're going to build a community that lasts, um, you know, they, they will bond with people. And, um, you know, I, I foresee, you know, getting them started on meeting every once in a while and, and keeping things moving, keeping them going.

Supporting one another.

Brad Minus: That's awesome. I'll tell you one last anecdote and just, just to drive that point home. My parents just moved out here two years ago from Chicago from Bartlett. Um, and I hope she's not listening. Um, but my mom was kind of a pessimist, um, a pessimist and a skeptic my whole life.

Right. And it was just one of those things. And I love her. I still, and I love her more than anything in my whole life is my mom and my dad. And, um, And she, my dad would always tell me, she goes, he's cause he worked from home. He had his own business. He had own businesses, but he worked from home a lot. And, and he was, he was like, God, he goes, he gave me, he got on the phone with me and he's just like, she doesn't do anything.

She gets up, she gets on the computer. She makes me breakfast and she's back on the computer. She's watching TV, blah, blah, blah. She doesn't do anything. And she's like, he's like, I told her to go volunteer to do this, to do that. And I was like, and I think a lot of it, there was a lack of a loss of, uh, loss of.

Of, um, purpose, you know, like she loved it when I came home because she would cook and she would do all this stuff and she wouldn't stop. And then my dad, then later on, my dad would like, so she didn't, she didn't have this purpose. Well, they come here and you know, obviously they moved here for me and, which is great.

Um, and they're getting older. And, um, my mom, also my dad goes like, I don't know, we were about three months in that I'm doing right. She goes, your mom is a different person. I'm like, what? She goes, she's so happy and she knows everybody. And then I get, and I talked to her and she's like, yeah, well, Monday play Mahjong and we have the Shalom group on Tuesday.

I play, um, you know, today, Tuesday is Euchre. And then I've got the, uh, the, the geniality club. And then we have the book club on that day. And then on Wednesday, you know what I mean? She's like all the way down the road, like every single day is populated with activities and she knows everybody. Well, we're set to go on a cruise.

My parents and I, and we get to a point where, uh, anyway, it's a week before my mom falls and shatters her sacrum. So we can't go. Um, so she ends up going to rehab where she gets COVID and then she, and then she transferred to my dad.

Lynn Banis: Oh

Brad Minus: boy. So I go to my, I, so I go to my, my dad's, I go to my dad.

I'm like, Hey, I'll take you out to dinner. That night before we leave and because, oh, because they got the insurance, not me, I didn't get the insurance because, well, the insurance didn't cover me because it was my parents, not my, you know, not my wife or myself or anybody. Right. So it didn't cover me. So like, you have to go.

And I'm like, well, all right, listen, if I was a parent, I would want my kid to go too. So I'm not going to fight this. Cause all they're going to do is fight with me on it anyway. So that's not even worth it. So I'm like, all right. So the day before we go, I go and he's like shivering and stuff. And I'm like, dad.

Like you have COVID. He goes, no, no, I took the test. It says it was, it says it was negative. I says now wait to take tomorrow. It's going to say it's positive shivering, hurting the whole bit. Well, turns out my mom came home from, from rehab. He ends up going into the hospital, but their community. She's like, yeah, Deb stayed with me a couple of days and Mike Took your parents took your dad here and there and this guy did this and this they all came over We had more food than when we knew what to do with.

I mean it was crazy The community around them and I just by what you talking about having community around you when you're grieving You know, she was in, she was, she was, you know, they were, they were having issues, you know, they were having health issues. Not that my parents would have, wouldn't have done that for any of those other people, they would have, but just this community.

And like, that is, is the first time that I saw how powerful that really is.

Lynn Banis: Very powerful, very, very powerful. Yeah, it can, it can just really help someone reestablish their, um, their whole sense of self and confidence. And you know, the whole nine yards, it's just really healthy for people. Uh, and I'm assuming they're in some type of a retirement situation.

And, uh, you know, that's, that's just, I think, I think it's excellent.

Brad Minus: Yeah, they're in a Del Webb community. Um, and brand new to like, they moved in the clubhouse wasn't even finished yet. Yeah, so all brand new. And so like, all these people are in the same boat, you know? Um, and then actually, they're like, they're close to being the oldest people on the block, you know, because they're 55 and older, right?

Right. Um, so that's Yeah, yes. But yeah, I that's, it's absolutely powerful. Yeah. I but I'll just never forget, you know, my, my mom was just, she's just kind of Negative, you know, I mean, people grow up that way and just happens to be that way. And, you know, but I'll never forget. So I've had, I go to the same, the same woman to that does my hair.

I've done since I've been here and I've been here 20 years. Um, so, of course, we sent my mom up there to see Kelly. Her name is Kelly. Kelly calls me or I call Kelly to get a, to get an appointment. To get a, uh, an appointment. And she goes, she goes, Oh my God, your mom is hilarious.

Lynn Banis: And you're going, who's she talking about?

Brad Minus: Do you know who my mom is? Do you remember who my mom is? She goes, yeah, I had actually dropped something off at their house. I actually was at their house too. So yeah, I know who I'm talking about. And I'm like, You sure? Yeah, it was, it was just, it was like that. That's how much she changed just by having this community around her.

So the development, the, the, the, uh, it's, it's so just incredibly powerful. So I'll leave it at that. But so, um, But, um, but thank you. Um, so y'all all have to see this, um, app dot widows rising together. com. She has tons of stuff on here. She's got topics. She's got courses. She's got action lists. She's got directories.

She's got so much information on this, on this website, you all have to go check this out. It's, and I'll have that in. Um, she is, uh, Dr. Lynn is on Facebook, LinkedIn. Looks like you've got a YouTube page, Instagram. Um, she's got all those, uh, all those things for you on her site. I'll have those linked directly in the show notes.

And. And, um, anything else that I could possibly imagine I'm going to put there to all about, um, uh, all about Dr. Lynn and the Widows Rising Together organization that she has. Um, so I think you're gonna, I think you're gonna love that. And you've got, um, and if you look at her Facebook, she's always putting her Calendly.

link so that you talk to her one on one. So she's really made yourself available that if you're in a situation where you're kind of getting over grief, um, that I think this is your resource right here. This is why we do things. We do this to help people. And this is good, especially since COVID this has been going on.

And there's a lot of people that are in this position and just don't know where to go from here. And, Lynn is the expert here. She's been through it herself. And with her background, she was able to use it. That's a very positive thing. Use it to create to rate courses and ways for you to find your new identity and your next step in life.

Um, so that will be all in the show notes. If to be watching this on YouTube. Please go ahead hit the, subscribe and the notification bell, just to make sure that you're notified anytime that we drop a new episode. If you're on Apple or Spotify, go ahead and leave us a little review.

And I don't even care if it's a good review, you can go ahead and live a bad review because at least at that point, I'm getting feedback and we can make this podcast evolve and make it even better. So, and I appreciate that. Dr. Lynn, thank you so much. Oh, thank you so much

Lynn Banis: for having me. And, and this was, just a fascinating discussion because we really brought an entire life and show people, you know, how you can use things that you've experienced through your life to create what you want to create, you know, and I always tell people, all you need within you your experiences.

You just need to find somebody who's willing to take your and walk you through process of moving forward and just really helping you get there. So

Brad Minus: I couldn't have said it better myself. So for Dr. Lynn myself, thank you so much for listening, watching, and we will see you in the next one.