Building Stronger Relationships – A Journey of Love, Change, and Coaching with Craig Bennett and Meredith MacKay

Brad Minus: [00:00:00] And welcome back to another episode of life changing challengers. As always, I'm your host, Brad minus, and extremely excited. You have a two for one today, ladies and gentlemen, we have Craig Bennett and Meredith McKay with us. They are relationship coaches and where they got to where they are today is a super interesting story.

And we're going to run through that. And it's it's pretty amazing. And from what I've seen, I am truly honored and privileged to have them on the show today. So Craig Meredith, how are you doing today? 

Meredith MacKay: Great. And we're super excited to be here. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Super pumped. I appreciate it. And I'm really happy to have you on, but let me ask you this, Craig Meredith, you tell me a little bit about your childhood, where you grew up, what was a compliment to your family?

And what was it like to be Craig and Meredith as a kid? Meredith, why don't you start, you know, ladies first. 

Meredith MacKay: Sounds great. I'll take it away. Well, I am the oldest of three girls. I grew up in a [00:01:00] pretty small town and was a, since I can remember, a super high achiever. I always did really well in school.

I played sports, I played piano, I played the violin. For my whole existence that I can remember, I was always, shooting for the stars. Always, high performer, high achiever, doing it all. And I think that instilled in me a little bit of perfectionism and people pleasing, which will be a theme throughout my, my, my entire life up until the last couple of years.

I like to say I'm a recovering people pleaser and a recovering perfectionist. And so that kind of follows me all the way through. And I really bought into this. I would say that the default life plan, as it had been laid out to me, based on my family and the society that I grew up in was. Go to school, get good grades, go get more school, get more good grades, get a good job, retire, all that stuff.

And that whole go to school, get good grades thing. Like that was my jam. I was a [00:02:00] really good student, loved school and followed that plan all the way through to, my corporate job. And we'll get into that in a minute. My life got a bit rocked. I would say. When I was going to university, graduating high school, heading off to university, my parents separated at that time.

And that was my 1st really. life shaking moment. I would say that was a really challenging time for me, seeing my whole world sort of the ground shift beneath my feet. And there was some for sure, some challenging times with that. However, I have to give huge kudos to my parents because even through that we never missed a family dinner.

Like we never missed a Christmas dinner, a Thanksgiving dinner. None of those big. Sort of holiday moments, birthdays, none of those big moments. My parents always, we always had those together. So my dad would come over and we would do family dinner on those big milestones together. So, it was a really difficult time navigating the initial [00:03:00] separation as my parents navigated that.

And we navigated that as the kids, and I was, like I said, the oldest of three. So my sisters were a little bit younger than me. And I'm so grateful that my family was able to make it going through that, but again, I felt really grateful that we never had to split our time, split our holidays between our parents.

My parents always worked it out between themselves that we could do our family dinners together. My dad passed a couple of weeks ago, but up until then, we had every single family dinner and family milestone together as a family, even after they were apart. And so that was a huge event for me that shaped, my view of relationships. I was still, I still feel very lucky that they figured that out amongst themselves between the two of them so that we weren't feeling the brunt of that needing to divide our time between them. Yeah, 

Brad Minus: the first thing I have to say is I'm very sorry to hear about your dad passing.

That's tough. So I guess my question to you is that so you had two younger sisters, how much younger were they? Um, 

Meredith MacKay: One is two years younger and one is six years younger. 

Brad Minus: Did you find yourself bonding with them a [00:04:00] little bit more as this was going on? 

Meredith MacKay: Yeah, definitely. I, it's interesting through the whole sort of moments like that when it was happening, I found because I'm the peacemaker of my family, I was the one who sat back and my sisters certainly had a lot more.

a lot more to offer, a lot more to say during those sort of more difficult moments. And so I, I actually learned a lot from them in those moments, because as the peacemaker, I was trying to not rock the boat, keep everything as smooth for everyone as I possibly could, and therefore didn't speak my mind.

Didn't share what was inside of me for a couple of months, I would say, after, and that was, that was difficult, but I watched them do it in real time, and I think that really helped me eventually be able to talk to both my mom and my dad and share, what I was feeling through their whole separation and how that impacted me, but I couldn't share that right away.

I actually had to learn that from my sisters. 

Brad Minus: Well, and that's interesting, especially [00:05:00] since you were at university. Now, did you go to university to where you were? I was driving distance. I was local. So you lived at home. Oh, so you did see it. Definitely. I was right there from afar. Yeah. 

Meredith MacKay: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Give your parents huge props.

That they were able to do what they said, as far as keeping those dinners and stuff. Did you find any tension? 

Meredith MacKay: The first Christmas, because they separated in October, Canadian Thanksgiving is October, so it was around then. And then Christmas, being a couple of months later, that first Christmas.

It was certainly awkward, like everything about it was uncomfortable and new and like everything about it was different. From the outside looking in, it would look the same, right? We all sat in the same seats at the dinner table, we ate the same food that we would eat every Christmas, but the feeling around the table was certainly very different and awkward.

But that was the awkwardness. After that, we hit our stride and things hit that level of normalcy that you're used to. 

Brad Minus: Well, where did you go to university? 

Meredith MacKay: I went to [00:06:00] university to the university of Prince Edward Island. I live way up East coast by Maine. I'm just in Canada. So that's where I went to school 

Brad Minus: where'd you study? 

Meredith MacKay: studied biology and math. Huge science nerd loved everything that has a right answer, right?

Like I'm less in the gray. I like the black and white. I want to know that I'm right or wrong. I want to show my work. 

Brad Minus: I read that somewhere about you. Okay. All right. Well, that's great. Did you do any extracurricular you do any sports? Oh, you said you played violin and piano. I played violin 

Meredith MacKay: and piano growing up.

I played. Soccer, rugby, and I was a figure skater, so a little bit all over the place. 

Brad Minus: Wow. Well, soccer and rugby, both contact sports. Rugby more than soccer. And then going to figure skating. Well, it's a contact sport because you contact with the ice. 

Meredith MacKay: I contact with the ice a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: I imagine. I imagine. All right, Craig, your turn. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah, so there's some similarities with how we grew up. Actually, I grew up in a small town as well. Actually, I moved [00:07:00] around a lot more. So the one big difference between Meredith's upbringing and mine is my parents, my dad was in the Canadian military.

So we were bouncing around a lot. Excuse me. So my early years, from I was born in like a small Halifax, Nova Scotia, like a small city on the east coast of Canada. And I was only there until I was about two. And then we moved overseas to Germany and I grew up. So my first memories are probably in Germany for the, for those like six years until I was about eight years old.

Played hockey growing up all kinds of sports, soccer, baseball, all kinds of different sports and then moved back to Canada when I was eight. I went to middle school and it's a small town back in Nova Scotia, but a smaller town and we bounced around 

I went to four different schools. I think it was six different schools in seven years or something like that. I'd have to do the math and count them, but I think it's something like that. Around the time, similar timing actually, as well as my parents, as I was going off to [00:08:00] university, my parents split up as well.

Very cordial, like as, as far as like a relationship, they it wasn't as amicable as that sort of breakup can be similar to hers, but it wasn't quite as Like all the dinners were together. It wasn't like that. It was more, my dad moved out, they lived separate lives and I was going back and forth, like visiting them separately.

So I would see them like, so if I had Christmas dinner, it would be, I'd have one Christmas dinner and then I'd have another Christmas dinner with the other side of the family. So it was a little bit different that way. I grew up, I'm the oldest of two. So I have one younger brother who's four years younger than me.

And so he was still in, in high school. Like he still had to go through his, basically his full suite of years in high school, around that time that my parents split up and when, and so I moved out and I went to university. Actually, I moved to, no, back to where I was born and my dad ended up Living there as well.

So I actually ended up [00:09:00] living with him for a little while I was going to university. So 

Brad Minus: Nice. What did you study? Psychology. Wow. Yeah. A little bit different. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: It's starting to make sense here. They say opposites attract, you got the soft and hard science here.

And then but yeah. And did you did you continue with all the sports in college? 

Craig Bennett: I messed around with friends. Like I didn't play on college teams or anything, but I did do the intramural thing and I actually picked up different sports. Actually, what I really liked about university was the ability to try different sports that I had never played.

So like ultimate Frisbee, broomball, things that I had never played, like when I was. Broom ball's, another ice sport. It's probably not something you'll ever see in the United States. 

Brad Minus: Brooms. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah, and no skates. No skates. And no skates. Yeah. You have shoes on. Yeah it's a weird sport.

But I still play basketball and soccer and stuff like that with my buddies, so. 

Brad Minus: Oh, nice. So, yeah, I hear that. I'm an endurance coach. [00:10:00] I coach people to do marathons and Iron Mans and. ultra marathons and I went to go run the grandma's marathon in Minnesota Duluth. And I was in the the national headquarters for curling. 

Craig Bennett: Oh, very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I 

Brad Minus: don't understand that sport. Yeah. I'm not, 

Craig Bennett: I'm not the biggest fan. My dad's a huge fan. I'm not the biggest fan of it, but yeah it's big here in Canada for sure. 

Brad Minus: Oh, that's good.

All right. So at what point did these two worlds collide here? 

Meredith MacKay: Well, interestingly enough, they didn't collide because we grew up, we were born three hours apart from each other. Our worlds didn't collide until we moved across the country to the western end of Canada. 

Craig Bennett: Separately. 

Meredith MacKay: Separately. And we ended up working basically across the hall from each other.

What? Yeah, we actually met at a retirement party. There was three different people retiring and he knew one and I knew another. So we ended up at the same retirement party and that's when we, [00:11:00] that's when we met. Yep. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah, it was weird because 

Meredith MacKay: it's 

Craig Bennett: weird. Cause it's one of those things that it was one of those events that I wouldn't normally have gone to.

Like, I don't know, for some reason that day I was, I just felt compelled to go for, obviously, for obvious reasons. The universe works in our favor and Something was telling me to go. So I did. And 

Meredith MacKay: I actually almost bailed on the party too, but I felt bad. I told the woman I would go to her retirement party.

So I followed through and I'm glad I did. 

Brad Minus: Oh, I imagine that you are. So was this so let me ask a question. Was this your first job out of school? Or 

Meredith MacKay: no, I bounced around a little bit at a school. I ended up going on and getting my master's in nutritional epidemiology.

Cause I thought I was going to go into like. Medical research type of thing. But then I didn't end up doing that. I moved out West and ended up working in the health and wellness group of an energy company. And so I did a few things before I worked in government, and that was. [00:12:00] Really boring.

And so this was a lot more intense, a lot more fun. So it was, I don't know, a couple of jobs in, I would say, but early on. 

Brad Minus: And you Craig? 

Craig Bennett: Same thing. Yeah. I went back to school for occupational health and safety. I was working for the energy company and it wasn't actually even my first job out of that.

I did a very short stint as a work experience kind of thing with another energy company. And that was coming to an end and I started looking for other opportunities. And then I got on with another company for a few years and then eventually I moved to the same company that she was working for.

And then, yeah that's when we met. So it was a few jobs in as well. All right. 

Brad Minus: So you both ended up just having a career, trying to find yourselves and then you found this, then you found this company. Were you both with this company for a while? 

Meredith MacKay: In the end, about a decade. But when we met each other a couple yeah, decade, I would say in the end.

Yeah, it was, 

Craig Bennett: yeah, it was about 10 years. I was with the [00:13:00] company and we met probably 5 years into that or something. Yeah, 4, 4 years into that or something like that. So I can't remember exactly, but I moved around a little bit with that company. So I didn't actually end up in Calgary where she was.

I was actually in this very remote northern Canadian city or town I guess we'll call it town more than city out in the like where the where they actually produce the oil and gas. That's where I actually was for a good few years for like two or three years and then I moved they moved me to to calgary So 

Brad Minus: yeah, and then obviously you weren't in the same you weren't I mean you both have two different Countries expertise expertise, I don't know.

And then so you, but you ended up across the hall from each other. So you're in different groups. So there was no, no issue with dating a coworker cause you were in the same group. So that was good. So how did it grow? Tell us a little bit about how that moved up and then how flourished.

When did you finally decide to get married and all the good stuff? 

Craig Bennett: Yeah. So we were we were at that, that, that [00:14:00] party and that, that retirement party. And we were amongst the last to leave. We were just like mingling around and then we found each other in the room and we were talking and hanging out.

And obviously there was a little bit of a connection there. And then, yeah, we texted for a little while after that. Go ahead. You want to jump in? 

Meredith MacKay: Yeah. I got a text. You must've, you looked me up in the company directory and sent me a text on my work phone. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah. And 

Meredith MacKay: that's how we started. Talking outside of the party.

Craig Bennett: Yep. Yeah. And then we did that for a little bit and then we met up. It was pretty casual at first. It was not like it wasn't neither of us were, I don't think like really it was a surprise, let's say that, that, that happened. And so, um, yeah, we've just took it casual there for the first couple of weeks, and then eventually we went for a date, we went to a hockey game.

We're Canadian. So we went to a hockey game for our first date. And then from there, just, yeah, it just picked up and took off. 

Meredith MacKay: It was the big, cause I had been single for [00:15:00] the better part of a decade before I met him. And. Had been on lots of really bad dates and the big difference for me was from the 1st night all the way through texting and hanging out.

Like. The conversation just flowed so easily. Like he was just so easy to talk to. There was never any who texted first last time. Like there was never, I never felt any of that sort of awkwardness of where am I going to say next? Like the conversation for me just flowed so easily every time we spoke that I was like, okay, there's something special about this situation here.

Brad Minus: That's yeah I tend to find that same thing even like, I ended up texting with a coworker or something, guys, it's even like, that starts to roll, and you're like, you get that, you're like, Oh, this guy could be a really good friend, and it's the same thing.

And then, of course with with the opposite sex as well. And you start to really go. And it's just like, before you know it, it's that teenage thing where you finally, you're on, well, I didn't grow up with. [00:16:00] With a, with an iPhone or any of that stuff or a cell phone even.

But now it's like you start having these text conversations and before, it's like five hours have passed. You've got like 17 pages of fricking stuff going on over and over again. You're just like, where'd the time go? 

Meredith MacKay: Know, 

Brad Minus: but I can imagine that's exactly where it was for you.

How did it work out for you? 

Craig Bennett: Yeah we definitely, we moved in before we decided to do all the other stuff down the line of getting engaged, getting married, all that stuff. Okay. 

Meredith MacKay: It actually happened pretty fast. I would say we were, it was. It's funny because we've never really reflected back on this until this moment.

It's interesting because at work, there was a really big forest fire, a really big fire up in our around our company's operating sites. And he was working as a emergency, not responding to the fire, but we had like a command center in Calgary, like, at our headquarters dealing with this emergency.

And he was Working at that like 

Craig Bennett: 24 seven basically on [00:17:00] shifts. I would have to come in at weird hours just during this time because it was a 24 hour situation. So I would come in on, on, on nights sometimes. And so because I was doing that and we were living, I lived further away from the office and she had a condo relatively close to the office.

I started crashing at her place. 

Meredith MacKay: And he never left. 

Craig Bennett: And it just it just happened that we apparently we live together now. 

Brad Minus: Oh, there's again, the universe has been dealt you a hand and you went with it. I love that. Yeah. Absolutely love with it. So how long were you guys together when that happened? 

Craig Bennett: Oh no, when we moved in together, only like, like, not even 6 months, but probably about 5 months or so. And then, yeah, it just, it went so well that we were like, let's just keep this train rolling. And then so we did that for a while. And then, yeah, we, we've lived together since it sold my place, all that stuff.

And, then we ended up moving, [00:18:00] from Calgary further East to another office. So I got a different job and they moved me, moved us further East. And then that's when we got engaged and got married. And then long story short, I guess the company eventually was doing some yeah, restructuring and decided that they wanted us back in Calgary.

So take us back to where we started. And it was at this point that we were starting to, I was starting to get. a little bit disenchanted with my role in the company, my job. I wasn't feeling fulfilled. I, and you similar with you, but more 

Meredith MacKay: fulfilled for sure. Yeah, it 

Craig Bennett: was, it was a little bit more me and I was just not loving the job anymore, the career.

And so when they said, we're going to move you back. Or if you don't want to, obviously we can't force you, but you have a job Becky. Or sorry, back west. And if you stay here, then we can't, you don't. And so, it was a decision [00:19:00] time. It was decision time. And 

Meredith MacKay: for the record, that was not even 12, I think it was 10 or 11 months after we had moved.

They moved us to a Toronto and then 10 months later said, actually, we're closing this office. Can you come back? So we hadn't even been there a year. It'd only been about 10 months when they made that decision. So it really threw us for a pretty big loop. At that point that we were just getting settled.

My sister lived around the corner. Like, it was, we were really enjoying this time. Like, it was just skirts of Toronto and we were really enjoying settling in there. And then it was like, actually. Nevermind. 

Craig Bennett: Walk you back. 

Meredith MacKay: Come on 

Craig Bennett: back. So that was a but it was like the universe again, operating in our favor.

And it was just the flashing sign that said, exit here. And so that's when we started to really realize that I started thinking and considering other options. Like, is there maybe a different way we can do this? Like, do we really have to do the nine to five corporate grind or can we, Can we do another way because this isn't my passion.

This isn't what's on my heart to give back to the world. Like, [00:20:00] is there more here? Like, what else can we do? And so that's when we really started to think about other options other than the kind of the corporate 9 to 5 grind and we ultimately ended up deciding that. We're not going to go back West. We're going to, we're going to figure out how to do this differently and do something that actually more aligns with what's on our heart to give back to the world.

Meredith MacKay: And he says it like it was, we just made a decision. 

Craig Bennett: Oh, it wasn't easy. It was a very difficult decision. We hemmed and hawed and went back. It was very stressful, but ultimately we went for a walk one day and we just Listen to our gut. We just were talking it through on a walk. I remember it was like a nice fall evening and we were going for this walk and we just started thinking about it and talking about it. And we said, It doesn't feel right to go back. It doesn't feel right to stay in this. We aren't exactly fulfilled. I don't know what we're going to do yet, but it just [00:21:00] feels right to leave.

This feels like the right time to leave. As scary as it was, like it was super scary. 

Meredith MacKay: And we're both planners, like we both followed that default life, like to a T. Like we were doing, we were like, By all the markers of success for that default life, like check, check. Like we were high performers on that default life road and taking that exit was a very stressful decision.

And I think most of our family thought we were nuts when we left our corporate job because we were doing really well. And it was just, like you said, even though we didn't have a plan, which made it even more stressful because we didn't know what we were going to do. It was just The gut decision felt like the right thing.

And so we just made the decision based on that. And I can still remember one of my coworkers and we were having a team meeting saying, so what's your plan? What are you going to do? And I'm like, I have no idea, but we're going to figure it out. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Meredith MacKay: Okay. 

Brad Minus: I like that. Again, this seems like a your [00:22:00] lives.

Destiny was feeding you these hints. 

Meredith MacKay: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: And you just decided to take them. 

Meredith MacKay: And actually there was one more piece of that.

During this whole stressful decision time, my dad was diagnosed with cancer and we thought it, so this was 2020. We thought it was going to be his last Christmas. So we drove 17 hours home to where I'm from to spend Christmas. And then he got diagnosed with another cancer, which ended up being fantastic news because that was the cancer that had spread.

And that was actually like a better cancer. And so that really helped us Gain perspective on life, like our parents aren't getting any younger. Craig's grandmother is healthy as a horse, but she's not getting any younger either. And if we move back, like the company wants us to, we are further from all of most, almost all of our family.

And definitely from all of our parents and grandparents. And when we're living out West, we see them for a couple of days a year at the most. And so dad being sick gave us the [00:23:00] perspective we needed. To make this really big decision. And then we made it and actually dad, his health turned around one 80.

He was very healthy. His cancer was gone for, the next 

Craig Bennett: three years, four 

Meredith MacKay: years, four years, and we mentioned in the pre interview, he passed two weeks ago, but he was only in the hospital 10 days before that, like we, because we made that decision, we had these last four years. With my dad that we wouldn't have had otherwise.

So to your point around the universe, really working in our favor, like that was a pretty enormous universe, shot in the air. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Are you sure he had those two diagnoses of cancer? Did he just want his little girl back? I don't know. And no, absolutely. All kidding aside. I know what happened, But wow that's, obviously, like you said, it just destiny was calling you. You found that you found the footsteps. You took them. So what was the, what did you end [00:24:00] up start doing now? Now you both don't have, you don't have jobs and I don't know what it's like.

I don't know what it's like in Canada. I know what it's like here. Here, if if you're in a corporate job, as what you were in, and they lay you off they decide to dissolve your position, usually get a severance and usually the severance is one month for every year that you were there, but when you quit, you get nothing.

So I'm assuming that at this point now, you're just basically without, We got severance because they, 

Craig Bennett: they changed the what do you call it? Environment for us. Like, we decided that we weren't going to move, but they said, either you can move and you have a job or you can not leave and you'll get severance.

We'll lay you off. You get the severance. Okay. 

Brad Minus: Well, that was very nice of them because in the States they didn't have to do that. But that's great. Yeah. So, all right, so you got a little bit 

Meredith MacKay: Mm-Hmm, , 

Craig Bennett: yeah. What you decided to do at that point. And so we decided we didn't really know at first, so we [00:25:00] were like doing a bunch of research, figuring things out, and we were like, okay, well, like, it seems like a lot of people make their fortunes in and are really successful in real estate, so we should start there.

And so we. Did all the things we, know, joined the masterminds, took the courses, read the books, listened to the podcast, all of this stuff with real estate. And we started a little real estate investing company that we thought would be it had like a, an altruistic bend to it where we would actually be able to have a win situation where we could help investors Earn a return on their money, but also help first time homebuyers because here in Canada in this particular area where we are in Canada The home prices have gotten out of control for people.

I think it's like that in a lot of places But here in particular it's gone like crazy and we thought okay. Well people are having a really hard time finding homes let's be let's figure out a way to What's the word i'm looking for I guess? Anyway, help them find their, yeah, it's to help them find their first homes.[00:26:00] 

And so we we go into that and we get 

Meredith MacKay: the business coach, we do the marketing, we get the website, the big investment to make it all feel real. 

Craig Bennett: We invest all the big money in it to get a get a start. And we are absolutely miserable, 

Meredith MacKay: hating it. We are 

Craig Bennett: absolutely miserable. It's not it's, it actually feels worse than the corporate job that we had left, but that we were actually getting paid for 

Meredith MacKay: Now, we're miserable and we're not getting paid. And 

Craig Bennett: I don't mean to say that it was a miserable corporate job. It was just not fulfilling for us and, so then we joined, we start this company and it's like, Oh man, this is not what I want.

And so we we quickly, occupational 

Brad Minus: health and safety starting to sound pretty good, right? Yeah. Like, 

Craig Bennett: well, yeah. And so we're like, like, what are we doing here? We had a heart to heart. Like we had a real sit down conversation of like, what are we doing here? And what's our plan? Like, what are. What are our next steps?

Because I'm not, this isn't for me. 

Meredith MacKay: And not, and we had to have that conversation because it was starting to impact our relationship. Like up until [00:27:00] this point, we'd been rock solid. And now that we're both so miserable trying to figure this out, we're taking it out on each other. So we're starting to snipe at each other a 

Craig Bennett: little bit, which is just not us. Our relationship has historically been a very big strength for us. And when we started to see that was happening, it was like, okay no. Time out. We're going to nip this in the bud right now. This is not happening. And so we just hit pause and we said, let's just go figure out who we are, because up to this point, we had not done the work to figure out who we are and what we actually want.

We were in such a rush to leave our corporate jobs and to replace that corporate income that we didn't actually sit down and map out what it is that we actually want and who do we want to become and what do we want to have at the end of the day? 

Meredith MacKay: And because we didn't do that, we ended up creating a business that was completely opposite of the life that we actually wanted to have.

It was not aligned in any way with how we would like our life to be. We had started a [00:28:00] business that was. Completely counter to what we actually wanted our life to look and feel like once we sat down and thought about it. And so we ended up closing that business. in six weeks. Like start to finish. This is how miserable we are.

We invested up, a lot of money for us at that time and just said, no, it's just not worth it. And so we stepped away and then we spent the next six weeks actually in the Southwestern United States. Like we hiked in Utah. We went to Arizona to visit his dad. We did just a road trip to California.

We just did a road trip around the Southwest United States and did a little bit of We went to a couple of conferences, listen to some audio books and started actually doing the work to decide who do we want to be and what do we want our life to actually be like, and that was a game changer.

Craig Bennett: Yeah, because it was at these events, we were going to these events, and it was at one of these events that we found someone, well, lots of people would come up to us and be like, hearing our story and like, it was super interesting that you guys are doing this together. Your relationship seems [00:29:00] very strong if you're able to go on this journey, because it's very stressful to do this journey.

By yourself, let alone when you both do it and nobody is like in the corporate job, you've both left the corporate job at the same time. That has to be massively stressful, but you seem, you guys seem so strong. You're happy. You're doing your thing. What's the secret? And we would hear that every now and then, but it was at one event in particular where a guy was like he's actually a coach and a speaker and he does quite well for himself.

And he's got this big career and coaching company. And he said to us, like, you guys should be Like you guys, your mindset, the way you guys approach relationships, you guys should be coaches. And that was when the seed was planted that, Oh, okay, that's our superpower. That's where we need to start putting our focus.

And 

Brad Minus: so we did. Interesting. So I just want to step back for just a minute. As far as you said that, And we all do this, right? When we want to start something new, all the research goes into it. Like you said, you went to the masterminds and you did the [00:30:00] coaching and you'd read everything that you could possibly get your hands on.

You did the courses. Any time through that, were you getting the warm and fuzzies the old time through that and 

Craig Bennett: see the thing that was warm and fuzzy was all of that. There was like, it was a lot of hype around. Oh, but the success that you can have and all the examples of wealth and the things that people were doing There was a lot of work that we didn't do, and that's on us.

But there's also a lot of smoke and mirrors out there, if you're not careful. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I'm not saying that we were duped in any way. What I am saying is that we didn't, we were looking at it through rose colored glasses as well. Yeah. And so, yeah, I think there were moments of is this right for us?

But it wasn't like, It didn't feel like the universe screaming at us to get out. It was a whisper of are you sure this is for you? And we ignored them. 

Meredith MacKay: And I would say we were a little blinded by the feel good nature of what we were trying to do that. We didn't [00:31:00] actually. Run the numbers objectively, like what are, do the numbers actually, because, we were, we had a business coach who had done this exact same business model in a different city.

And, according to him, did exceptionally well with it. And so we were blinded by the feeling of giving someone the keys to their first home and how good that was going to feel. And so. We were a little bit blinded by the feel good side and didn't do our due diligence on are these numbers actually going to work in this new place with these new demographics and these new home prices and all this stuff.

And 

Craig Bennett: no, it turns out when you really sit down and do the real, like, I think we were being a little liberal with some of the numbers in hopes of forcing it to work. But when we really sat down and looked at it, it's like, no, This isn't going to work, the numbers here, you're never going to be able to get them the home at a low, get the home at a low enough price to be able to get them one at a price that they can afford and also 

Meredith MacKay: get the investors in return.

It just wasn't 

Craig Bennett: yeah. 

Brad Minus: And so. [00:32:00] Go ahead. Oh no. I was just going to say, well, first of all, I got to give you kudos because you did do everything possible to do the right thing because you were putting you're putting other people first, I always say that one of my, one of the strengths that I do have.

It's that in the back of my mind, it's, is a saying that it's so that I might be of use. 

Meredith MacKay: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Right. Yeah. For me, it's like use of other people and I completely understand it. I can definitely see what you're talking about. That first set of handing them the keys and walking in the door. For me, it was the same.

It was the same thing. I did my first clinic. A running clinic for people that had never frickin run a frickin yard in their life. And eight weeks later, they ran a 5k and they came across the line and gave me drink big giant hugs and they're just like, Oh my God, this was so much fun.

This was a blast. And that for me was okay. You're in the right spot. You're doing what you want to do. what you should be doing. These people, they're in better [00:33:00] shape. They've dropped pounds. They they're happy. They're starting a lifelong commitment to health.

I'm like, yes. I'm like, that's where I need to be. And you tried to get there. So that I have to give you huge props for it. Wasn't about, Hey, I just left these great paying jobs. I need something to replace it. Let's just find out what that might be. And let's, let people be damned. You were like no.

We're going to figure out a way to do it. And put yourselves of use to a service that's going to help other people. 

Meredith MacKay: And 

Brad Minus: I totally get that because, like you're talking about the prices of homes. Yeah, down here in Florida, we have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, I bet. 

Craig Bennett: I bet. I will give 

Brad Minus: you, I'll give you for instance.

There's obviously a change in USD versus CAD, but, But so I live in an area and when I first got here and I first bought this home, lots of bear, like there was land around, no one really used it or it was [00:34:00] like dilapidated homes and stuff like that. And now all of a sudden there's 700, 000 homes, two blocks from me, two blocks west of me.

I've got over the last five years, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. They're like, they're apartment buildings, huge, like apartment buildings, a 600 square foot studio apartment right down the street from me and I do not live in a high income area, 2, 650 USD per month, 600 square foot apartment.

It's insane. That's wild. Yeah. And that's not well, water and sewage is included, but that's not electricity. That's not cable. That's not internet. That's not cell phone. That's not nothing. You know what I mean? It's crazy. It's nuts. And like I said, to just two blocks away.

Those houses at the bottom at the [00:35:00] base level are 700, 000. Yeah, real estate's gone wild. Yeah, it's definitely gone crazy. So I'm glad you, I'm glad you got out of it with, with your lives. That's great. But let's move back into the coaching, which is what you're doing now, which is so fabulous.

Yeah. What did you do to start moving into this? Or was there something before you decided to do some of this relationship coaching? 

Meredith MacKay: No, I would say when we decided to go into coaching we got a coach and we joined a community. Because I think that's 1 really 1 thing. I really didn't consider when you leave the corporate world and start to try to become an entrepreneur.

It's a lonely road. And even though the two of us are doing it together, it's still lonely. Like, you still need, like, the community around you of people who understand, they don't all have to be coaches, but they're trying to do something [00:36:00] different. They're trying to build a business some way, somehow in some area and understand what it's like, understand how hard it can be, how isolating it can be.

So that you feel like you have a team around you, even if you. Are you trying to do it by yourself or with your partner? And so those were two really important steps. But trying to be an entrepreneur is hard, like, period.

But there's an easier button. It's still hard. But it's, it feels more doable when you've got some people around you that can support you and so getting the coach and finding a community that can support was a game changer for us, especially in the beginning, but really always, like, you really do need that support all the time.

And so that was the 1st thing we did. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah, I think to your point, like, it's. When those tough days come, it's nice to have someone that can say, look, it gets easier. Like this is my experience. This is what I went through. Here's how I dealt with it. Having a community of people who can show you the watch outs and can [00:37:00] give you a pat on the back or pick you up off your back when you fall down or whatever.

It's just, it's critical to have that support to just keep you going and keep pushing through. And obviously the coach, it's not an easy button, but it's an easier button. It's something that might've taken you decades. Maybe it takes you, days or weeks or months or whatever.

But so it still takes work though. You still have to do everything the coach says. But at least now you're not flailing and doing a bunch of things that don't work. The coach says, look, this is what will work. And then you do that and you focus on that. And that's what compresses time for you because you're not wasting your time doing a bunch of things, trying a bunch of things that aren't going to work.

You just get to the thing that is. But that one thing is going to take a ton of work and it's going to take you focused effort and doing that thing, but at least you won't lose time doing the other stuff that just won't work 

Brad Minus: completely. Makes sense. Coaches need coaches. Yeah. And people, some people don't.

When I get ready for a race, I hire a [00:38:00] coach, and I know my business and I know my techniques and I know everything else, but I do know that if I create my own plan or if I try to train myself, I'm going to go organic. I'm going to be like, Oh, well, today, let's do tempo today.

Okay, let's go do tempo. And I get out there and I'm like. Nah, let's just go easy. You know what I mean? But if I know that I'm accountable to a coach that he's that it's a different and I always do somebody that's got a different methodology than I do. So that I can learn something. Also that pertains to coaching.

Meredith MacKay: So 

Brad Minus: But then I want to, if it doesn't, if I'm not fulfilling his vision, then I'm definitely not gonna make any progress. So I get that. And that's great. Mhm. So did you do, did you decide to go through some sort of, like, certificate or some sort of certification process in order to become these relationship coaches?

Meredith MacKay: Yeah, our coach has a certification program, so we've done his and a lot of School of Hard Knocks and [00:39:00] a lot of reading all the books, doing all the research, doing the different programs, like, There's a lot of stuff out there. A lot of it, not great, but like, there's bits and pieces you can pull in.

And so we've created our own relationship program to like, walk people through the steps that we think are important to be able to build the foundation. We focus it on marriage, but really the foundational skills of relationship building and maintenance. They apply to any relationship. So it can be a business partner.

It can be a friend. It can be a work. It can be your mother. It can be your sister. It can be anyone. Our program is focused on married couples and marriage as a relationship. But those skills apply to every single relationship in your life that you want to build and maintain. And so that's part of what we do that I love so much is I love working with married couples.

I, we've just found our way here and we just love doing it. But I also love [00:40:00] that. We don't exclude anyone because these skills, like, you don't have to be married to apply these skills in your life and build and maintain stronger relationships with everyone who's important to you, which I think is really cool.

Brad Minus: That is super cool. 1 last question about how you get through it. Then let's talk a little bit about your methodology. So. What I heard was that when you were going to the event, someone told you that, Hey, you know what? You guys are together and you're still together and you're doing this journey together, which is different.

You know what he thought was different. So you must have a way of your marriage run. It revolves around some certain values that you should impart to everybody else. But now we're just talking about you. You went through certification and then you ran, read all the books. Were you able to.

By reading all that, were you able to extrapolate, figure out what you do and how your marriage works compared to, okay. Yeah. 

Craig Bennett: It's super interesting because [00:41:00] it was at another event that we were at and we were asked to, because people were seeing the strength of our marriage and our relationship, they actually asked us to speak about relationships and we had never done that before.

Meredith MacKay: And like timeout, even though people had been asking for us, like, how do you do this? How does it work? What can I do with my partner? We were getting all those questions, but it wasn't until we were invited to speak on a stage that we were like, time of, maybe we, maybe what we have is actually valuable to share, it was almost like the stage request was validation, more so than just the ad hoc questions we were getting.

It's like, okay, someone who actually. if somebody owns a stage and has seen us talk, not on a stage, has seen us talk to other people, it's like, there's something here that I think would be a value to a lot of people. Please come and speak about it. That was our big, like, aha moment that we've got something here.

Craig Bennett: Yeah, that was because then we had to really, because before it was just, we would just tell them, yeah, like, this is what we do thing, just off cut off the cuff. But when we were asked to speak on a stage, we were like, Oh, that's really cool. We actually have to now [00:42:00] really think about it and make it, like, make sense for people, like, draw out a process, like, what is it that makes what we do so great?

And so that was the jumping off point. And so what, through that talk, we basically built out all the important things that we think are important for, A relationship and so that was the blueprint. 

Meredith MacKay: Yeah. And then, the more we learn and then we're always 

Craig Bennett: adding 

Meredith MacKay: on. We're always adding it, but it's also really validating to when you're reading stuff from, like, the Gauntlet Institute who are like, the gold standard for marriage stuff.

It's like, Yeah, we are just like that. That is very aligned with us. And so there's a lot of validation I find, too, because, that first talk years ago, we felt so green at it that it was like, this is just the framework that we have found to be effective. And then the more we've learned and.

And really dug into it, the more I was like, yeah, we had the right [00:43:00] building blocks in place. Now we're always fine tuning, but it was really, a really validating experience to 1, be asked and then 2, the more research we do, the more, we feel validated in our approach and feel confident in the way we do it.

Because. We're getting validation from, yeah, so it's been a really, I don't know. It's been a really cool experience for us. Just the way it all organically happened and then as we dig into it more, we realize that and we can just feel it that we're very much. doing what we're meant to be doing and just love doing it.

Brad Minus: That's amazing. Cause I was going to say, you said when, as soon as you said that, all right, we got asked to speak, I was like, Oh man, I'm like, Craig looks like somebody that could probably go up there and he might not have a problem with going up there and winging it. But I know Meredith wants nothing to do with that.

She needs to be like fricking on point. Yeah, so I, we do a lot of practice. Yeah, we practice a lot. As soon as you said speak, that's all I was, that's all I what I thought. But [00:44:00] actually, Craig, you were the one to sit there and say that you had put all your ducks in a row, so I gave you kudos for that.

Yeah. So tell me, give me a a quick some a scenario that you might find that you get. A lot of people coming to you and then talk to me how you would help somebody with that scenario in your methodology. So, 

Meredith MacKay: recently, 

Craig Bennett: I'm dealing with a couple who are, like we get, and this is something that happens frequently.

It just happened that it was, we talked to someone about it this weekend. But,

 I is inappropriate. No, 

Brad Minus: no. No names. No names. The scenario there 

Craig Bennett: Names, yeah. So a scenario is husband and wife have left. Their corporate jobs as well, and they're in a different place and they're navigating a completely different world.

Their [00:45:00] identities are wrapped up in what they've done for a living. And they are now transitioning into a different phase of life and things are not, what they thought like they're now their relationship is first and foremost, the focus now. And so it's. Learning how to interact with each other.

After years of having kids or jobs or other things that had taken a priority. And so the relationship fell to the back burner will say it wasn't maintained over the years. But now they're realizing with more time with each other that things are not the same. Maybe as good as they had hoped.

And so there needs to be a refocus and a reprioritization of the marriage. And it's really about focusing on four things. And one of them is the focus on yourself because yourself, the one thing that the one relationship you have from start to finish all [00:46:00] throughout your life is the one you have with yourself.

And I don't think it gets enough, attention when it comes to, when you look at. Solving relationship issues. We need to solve the relationship with the person you have in the mirror, first and foremost. So that's the number one thing. 

Meredith MacKay: Everyone wants to jump to the communication, the trust, the intimacy, everyone wants to jump and fix those things.

But before you can jump and fix those things, you've got to start with. Fixing the relationship with yourself, because I think it's Brene Brown, who says it, it just repeated ad nauseum because you can only receive love to the degree that you love yourself. And so that relationship with yourself needs to be the focus first so that you're open and able to receive the love from your partner.

And so I agree with Craig that it doesn't get nearly enough play when we start saying like there's something feeling broken in our relationship, like we're feeling disconnected, we've not prioritized each other for a long time for whatever, kids, jobs, all the things. And the first thing we want to do is fix the [00:47:00] communication, fix the intimacy.

And it's like timeout, we got to fix. Ourselves first and fix is not the right word, but focus on ourselves first so that we're bringing the absolute best version of us into the relationship and not bringing, the past baggage and how we see the world and see this relationship through all of the lenses of our past experiences.

Okay. That sets us up for failure. 

Craig Bennett: So reframing some of that stuff the things we think about ourselves. 'cause there's ano, there's a whole worthiness issue that's an epidemic that we could go on for. That's the whole podcast episode in and of itself, . So there's focusing on the self and then now that you've got that foundation built, you start focusing on the relationship with the other person, the spouse.

. And the communication, the trust, the intimacy, all of that. The conflict resolution, conflict, all of that stuff. Then that's when you start to work on that stuff. All while still and then the third is the third commitment or the third step is focusing on fun because a lot of times relationships fail when they stop being fun.

If something's not fun, that's when you, that's when [00:48:00] you don't want to do it. That's when you disengage. That's when you quit. Is when things stop being fun. If something isn't enjoyable, you're not gonna pull away. 

Meredith MacKay: And when you're having fun, I think we can all think back to a moment, when we've had fun together with any relationship, pick a relationship in your life when you're having fun.

I'm assuming the communication was probably flowing pretty easily. You were feeling pretty connected, all the other foundational elements of your relationship are working well, the fun is the first thing to go. And once it goes, the others will follow. Eventually, the communication will go, the trust will go, the intimacy will go, the connection will go, they will all go.

After fun goes to fun also doesn't get enough attention. I don't think 

Brad Minus: that's right. 

Meredith MacKay: And bonus that it's fun. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Go ahead. 

Craig Bennett: Go ahead. 

Brad Minus: No. So I got self and then I guess you call it communications, but it's a bunch of different things. It's a relationship with the other person. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah.

It's like, so basically our fundamental framework is based on four commitments or four pillars. And the first one is the commitment to the [00:49:00] self, the commitment to the relationship. And then the fourth one is a commitment to the future. We have to have that north star. Earlier we talked about our journey and how we were flailing when we left the corporate job.

And it's because we didn't have that north star that future. 

Meredith MacKay: Common vision for where we're going. We need to know where we're going together so that we can actually get there. And once you have that North star that you can use to guide you through your life and with your relationship, that really helps keep things in perspective.

And so sometimes, you know. When you have that North Star that's guiding you, those little nitty gritty things that sometimes, you can make a mountain out of a molehill sometimes in a relationship or in a marriage, they tend to fall away more easily when you've got your eyes on a bigger prize, when you know that you're on the same team, working towards that same goal.

Craig Bennett: It's like when we were, when we left the corporate world and we were in that. First real estate investing [00:50:00] company that just really wasn't going well, we started sniping at each other. And it's because we didn't have that North Star, that thing that we were building towards together. We didn't know what we were doing, what we were building towards.

But once we did, all of that other stuff fell away. It just became unimportant. Like the little, the sniping, all that stuff. It was just, it was gone because We knew we had this thing over here that we were building towards and all the other stuff just It just doesn't matter when you're when you know what the big prize is 

Brad Minus: Awesome.

So commitment to self They gotta can't love another person unless you love yourself Commitment to the relationship when we start working on communications and you said conflict resolution Intimacy trust yeah trust building that back together commitment to fun Which I love that it's number three and it's not number four.

It's not the last thing to fund because like you said, all that stuff starts to really rock and roll when you're out having fun with each other, because you don't care about the rest of it. And then a community commitment to future, which is, Hey, this is where we are. This is where we want to be. So [00:51:00] we need to align on how we're going to get there.

I love that. That is absolutely wonderful. So I am super impressed with that you were able to, you're able to take something that was so fundamental for the two of you, and then, come up with a methodology that can help so many people. And I don't know about Canada. I know in the United States, it's becoming more than 50 percent more than 50 percent of marriages end up in divorce.

So if we've got people like you out there that can help, I definitely we need you. We definitely are a pillar of something that is needed in our environment. As far as that commitment to self make sure you keep my number. And if you've got anybody that wants to make sure that they're better off, bring them my way.

As 

Meredith MacKay: part of our commitment to self, when we did it, we're doing our work. We started running was a big game changer for us in this whole personal growth journey. Yeah, it's been huge. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, ran marathon, couple marathons [00:52:00] now. It's something nice. Yeah. Yeah. And actually a buddy of ours who was, significantly overweight and couldn't run a hundred meters.

I guess. I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is. And you guys use 

Brad Minus: meters. 

Craig Bennett: Yeah, he couldn't use a hundred meters and he just ran his first half marathon in October and it was just so cool to watch him do 

Meredith MacKay: that. It was a nine month journey from couldn't run a hundred meters to ran the 21. 1 kilometers.

So it was like, I 

Craig Bennett: know the, like somewhat of the feeling that you get when you watch someone cross the finish line, someone that you've coached because he's just a friend of ours. We didn't coach him on the running aspect. He'd ask us questions because we had run some things. So we would just give him the little bits and tips of based on our experience, but this was all him, but still to see him cross the finish line and hug his daughter, having lost, nearly a hundred pounds and running a half marathon, it was just like, like tears, like 

Meredith MacKay: [00:53:00] it was very emotional tears.

Like it was 

Craig Bennett: so cool. 

Brad Minus: It is like nothing you've let, you have nothing you've ever experienced. I was, as I started going through the coaching, it was like, yeah, and I was still in, I was still competing a lot. I don't compete as much. I still compete, but I don't compete as much as I did.

It was like, at first it was like, yeah, like watch, watching my clients come across the finish line is almost as good as crossing the finish line myself. I don't even care about it anymore. I just like, no. And I'm like one, also one of those coaches that like, I'll run across some finish line and then if they're in the same race, I will run back, get them and bring them back with me.

Cause that's always fun. That's the next best thing. The next best thing to watching them is crossing with them. Yeah. Is it's absolutely, it is a high that you can't get from anything anything that's, not organic. It's, yeah it's absolutely, I can't say much about it. That's why I love it so much.

Yeah. So I, let's wrap this up. I [00:54:00] gotta tell you that I'm super excited. I, and I'm even more excited with some of the stuff that you came across and the lessons that you learned in the journey. I know that, that terms the journey a lot now, but as far as that journey goes and I am, I'm a super impressed and now you're making your living doing what you love.

Are you still in Toronto? 

Meredith MacKay: No, we're actually, we moved back to where I'm from on the East Coast, Prince Edward Island. 

Brad Minus: Okay, awesome. The I've been just to a few places in Canada. I've been to Niagara. I've been to Edmonton. I've been to and I've been to Toronto. So unfortunately, none of the other places.

I hope to get there soon, but usually, yeah, 

Meredith MacKay: summer. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Meredith MacKay: Okay, so you get it. 

Brad Minus: I get it. I grew up in the winters and not fun which is why I live in Florida now. So, but basically, but Craig, Meredith, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us today. I so appreciate it.

For the rest of you, I am going [00:55:00] to put up their website, which is it's a road of life, coaching. com. They also have a podcast 

Meredith MacKay: called, 

Brad Minus: Called road of life, the podcast. So you gotta listen to that and you've got like 55 episodes. Which is great. And they're not super long like this one.

They give you like little bite sized chunks to take with you, which me at least the latest ones are like that. So, and they're really interesting. Just to give you a couple, give you a couple of ideas and little seeds. The secret ingredient to a thriving marriage.

Colon. Fun. Celebrating celebrating consistency. A look back at year one, why 50 50 is a marriage myth. Interesting. Navigating difficult conversations and relationships. So these are all like those nuggets that I talk about. Is that about right? Yeah, 

Craig Bennett: Yeah, we try to keep them bite size. Some of them, are our longest is maybe 45 minutes, but usually they're in the 15 to 20. Yeah, 20 minutes. We try 

Meredith MacKay: to take one concept and tell a story, explain it, give you some pointers of how you [00:56:00] can implement it, like what kind of one concept at a time.

Brad Minus: You release weekly, same time every week, 

Craig Bennett: every Thursday. Yep. 

Brad Minus: All right. So you heard it here, folks. Thursdays, you can listen to new episodes of the road of life podcast. So, starting. Our own Craig and Meredith right here. But so definitely check that out and you can get that on Apple and Spotify.

You are both active on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram. 

Meredith MacKay: Yeah, we share an Instagram and we've got the road of life on YouTube and we've got a, we've each got our own Facebook group, but we've also our Facebook page, but we also got a Facebook group 

Brad Minus: just. Oh, excellent. So I will make sure that all those links are in the show notes so that you can.

Take a look. And if you decide that you might resonate with Craig and Meredith, that you can go ahead and take a look at that. And if check out their YouTube, make sure you subscribe, like, and hit that notification bell the next time that Craig and Meredith dropped an episode. And [00:57:00] of course, The Life Changing Challengers YouTube, if you happen to be looking at that, then, hit subscribe, like, hit the notification bell, so you always know when the next Life Changing Challengers episode drops.

Also, if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, please go ahead and review it. If you love it, say you love it. If you hate it, tell me you hate it. If you're somewhere in the middle, great. All I want is feedback. Everybody wants you, Hey, drop us a good review. No, I don't care.

I want to know how I can make this better. So if that means that you've got to give me the hard talk, the tough love, do it please. And other than that, everybody, thank you for listening and we will see you in the next one.